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  1. #1
    Hi to everyone here,

    I've been working on a design for a DIY CNC Router for a little while and recently I said damn it, I need to build it. I've kinda gone headlong into it and started to order bits (probably a mistake) but I wanted to get some professional feedback to hopefully put my mind at rest a little.

    I've attached 2 pictures of the frame work and also the completed (well almost) design. Its designed to take 400x400 materials with a rough cutting height of about 120mm. I plan to use NEMA 23's @ 2.2NM and 1.5kw spindle (er11) collet and it will hopefully be used to cut aluminium, delrin, brass (Maybe) etc. 1605 ballscrews and 20mm linear rails for the guildance.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    My goal was to try and make one for about 1000 but as I've added all the extra bits its about 1300 at the moment without any control costs. I think its more than likely 1500 by the time its all there.

    These are what I have ordered so far as well as the ali extrusion and metals, nuts and bolts etc.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295...17f54c4ddlTn1H
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...17f54c4ddlTn1H
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305...17f54c4ddlTn1H

    I have some concerns after I ordered these bits, more so as I started researching more whilst waiting for them to arrive. The linear rails and ballscrews have arrived and seem great, some of the rail blocks need looking at but I see that's a common thing. My spindle also arrived with the VFD which sadly doesn't have a ground point so I need to figure that out at some point. Still waiting for the steppers but after reading up about the drivers and power supply I am a little concerned they won't be up to the job.

    I am currently learning as much as I can about the wiring and I think I am getting there with that but I do have a little confusion about the number of power supplies I need in total especially as I plan to use homing swtiches. Each day is definitely a learning curve.

    Originally I was planning on using the Breakout board that comes with the stepper kit but adding up the extra costs of getting a serial computer and mach3 or even using LinuxCNC I am kinda now leaning towards a DDCSV2.1 for offline control. With that in mind I use Fusion for CAM so I'll need to sort a post processor out.

    Anyway, enough of my ramblings. I'd be very much interest in any feedback or suggestions you may have.

    Thanks

    Tim B

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Timatronics View Post
    Hi to everyone here,

    I've been working on a design for a DIY CNC Router for a little while and recently I said damn it, I need to build it. I've kinda gone headlong into it and started to order bits (probably a mistake) but I wanted to get some professional feedback to hopefully put my mind at rest a little.

    I've attached 2 pictures of the frame work and also the completed (well almost) design. Its designed to take 400x400 materials with a rough cutting height of about 120mm. I plan to use NEMA 23's @ 2.2NM and 1.5kw spindle (er11) collet and it will hopefully be used to cut aluminium, delrin, brass (Maybe) etc. 1605 ballscrews and 20mm linear rails for the guildance.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    My goal was to try and make one for about 1000 but as I've added all the extra bits its about 1300 at the moment without any control costs. I think its more than likely 1500 by the time its all there.

    These are what I have ordered so far as well as the ali extrusion and metals, nuts and bolts etc.
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295...17f54c4ddlTn1H
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...17f54c4ddlTn1H
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305...17f54c4ddlTn1H

    I have some concerns after I ordered these bits, more so as I started researching more whilst waiting for them to arrive. The linear rails and ballscrews have arrived and seem great, some of the rail blocks need looking at but I see that's a common thing. My spindle also arrived with the VFD which sadly doesn't have a ground point so I need to figure that out at some point. Still waiting for the steppers but after reading up about the drivers and power supply I am a little concerned they won't be up to the job.

    I am currently learning as much as I can about the wiring and I think I am getting there with that but I do have a little confusion about the number of power supplies I need in total especially as I plan to use homing swtiches. Each day is definitely a learning curve.

    Originally I was planning on using the Breakout board that comes with the stepper kit but adding up the extra costs of getting a serial computer and mach3 or even using LinuxCNC I am kinda now leaning towards a DDCSV2.1 for offline control. With that in mind I use Fusion for CAM so I'll need to sort a post processor out.

    Anyway, enough of my ramblings. I'd be very much interest in any feedback or suggestions you may have.

    Thanks

    Tim B
    Hello Tim B,


    Welcome to this forum.

    This one of the best places to get information on diy cnc builds.

    Most people post their ideas and design concideration in a ( pre ) build log.

    So people can help you narrow down any options you have for size machine, materials to use, purpose of the machine, trusted suppliers, budget and so on.

    Any 1st reply to a build log starts with don't buy electronics kits.
    Finish you design before buying anything.
    Post design pictures
    Ask for critique


    So you don't waist any money.

    I have one cost nutral tip.

    Swap the bearing blocks and rail on the z axis.
    So the rails are on the moving part of the z axis.


    You will find here what you are looking for.

    Grtz Bert.




    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to driftspin For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    Hello Tim B,


    Welcome to this forum.

    This one of the best places to get information on diy cnc builds.

    Most people post their ideas and design concideration in a ( pre ) build log.

    So people can help you narrow down any options you have for size machine, materials to use, purpose of the machine, trusted suppliers, budget and so on.

    Any 1st reply to a build log starts with don't buy electronics kits.
    Finish you design before buying anything.
    Post design pictures
    Ask for critique


    So you don't waist any money.

    I have one cost nutral tip.

    Swap the bearing blocks and rail on the z axis.
    So the rails are on the moving part of the z axis.


    You will find here what you are looking for.

    Grtz Bert.




    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk
    Thanks for the reply.

    Yea, I was expecting a few "don't buy anything yet" responses and completely understand. I tend to rush into things which could possibly be a massive downfall but I also like learning from mistakes although potentially expensive ones.

    Thanks for the advice on the z axis. I will consider it for sure. Whats your reasoning behind it out of interest?

    Thanks

    Tim B

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Timatronics View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    Yea, I was expecting a few "don't buy anything yet" responses and completely understand. I tend to rush into things which could possibly be a massive downfall but I also like learning from mistakes although potentially expensive ones.

    Thanks for the advice on the z axis. I will consider it for sure. Whats your reasoning behind it out of interest?

    Thanks

    Tim B
    Hello Tim B.

    Well the best thing is your committed now.
    You will own a CNC router.

    I think it can be a running system in the end.
    You can upgrade parts later.



    For the z axis.

    You want the blocks in a square on a solid plate close to each other.

    That is the stiffer setup.

    The rails and spindlemotor will all add to rigidity of the z axis plate.

    What ballscrews did you buy?
    Are they straight and all?

    Grtz Bert.

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk

  6. #5
    RobC's Avatar
    Lives in manchester, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 7 Hours Ago Has been a member for 3-4 years. Has a total post count of 69. Received thanks 13 times, giving thanks to others 4 times.
    Hello Tim, I did exactly the same as you but posted my build progress as I went so I got help before I made any purchases for expensive wrong items. I'd strongly recommend if you can to cancel the air cooled spindle and get a water cooled 2.2kw spindle and the reciprocal VFD for such. You will only ever hear the motors and cutting instead of a constant noise which for me kills the fun of watching your machine make something

    Breakout board, so many to chose from. You can go all out cheap and buy a generic 5 axis one for 6, they work perfectly in my experience only you likely will need to buy a Uc100 to convert from serial to USB if you do not have a serial capable motherboard. They're around 100 so take your pick wisely, I'd recommend going for a newer ethernet one with gecko drivers.

    The big thing which I can't say enough which I didn't do but now try in all my designs is one very clear statement. If you can't make it perfect, at least make it adjustable! Makes like so much easier when later you think, why can I not get a perfectly smooth face and you then need to start cutting shims and making cuts so you can tram an axis in if you are not able to (What muggings here had to do because I'm impatient).

    Here is my first machine all be it on its second iteration with a new gantry milled from 20mm ali instead of 10mm steel which it previously had. The first image is my complete disaster if im honest, I relied too much on the steel being true of which it wasn't so here is the latest version in the second picture In an old enclosure.

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    I'm still not sure if its worth making a new one when I can because I'm holding good tolerance .01mm most of the time and it works well.

    Kind Regards
    Rob

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  8. #6
    Doddy's Avatar
    Lives in Preston, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 11 Hours Ago Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 835. Received thanks 131 times, giving thanks to others 37 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Quote Originally Posted by RobC View Post
    you likely will need to buy a Uc100 to convert from serial to USB if you do not have a serial capable motherboard.
    "you likely will need to buy a Uc100 to convert from USB to Parallel if you do not have a parallel capable motherboard."


    Fixed that for you

  9. #7
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 11 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 7,356. Received thanks 1,264 times, giving thanks to others 80 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Timatronics View Post
    I've been working on a design for a DIY CNC Router for a little while and recently I said damn it, I need to build it. I've kinda gone headlong into it and started to order bits (probably a mistake) but I wanted to get some professional feedback to hopefully put my mind at rest a little.
    Ok well saying don't buy anything yet would be saying it after the horse as bolted so instead I'll say SEND IT BACK.!!

    The rails and ball-screws are ok-ish thou they are the budget range but still better than round rail so your ok there.
    However the drives and motors you need to dump as they will cripple the machine, esp if using parallel port.

    The spindle is open to debate, some like Air cooled for it's simplicity. Me personally I prefer water cooled not so much because of the noise, which they are much quiter, but for the fact I can run jobs that are 20-30hrs and not worry. Try running a cheap air cooled spindle for more than 8hrs continuously and it will melt down.
    Now your thinking aghh but I won't ever cut that length of time.!!.. … But you'll probably find you will at some point, esp if you ever want to cut 2.5D/3D ie: relief carvings etc which even a small-ish job can easily take 8hrs if it's detailed.

    Regards the controller, if your going with a parallel port then go with Linux CNC. Mach3 is rubbish with a PP and flaky.
    My advise is spend a little more and buy a decent ethernet motion controller like UC300 or AXBB because parallel port is slow and frustrating. The motion controller is the heart of the machine so it needs to be good.
    Regards the Stand alone DDCV controllers then all I'll say is I know lots of people who have taken that route only to still end up fitting a PC based controller because they find them restrictive or don't like the fact they can't do the things a PC based one can.?


    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    I have one cost nutral tip.

    Swap the bearing blocks and rail on the z axis.
    So the rails are on the moving part of the z axis.
    No that's the case with this design and it will restrict the machine rather than make it better unless the whole gantry is re-designed to account for it.!

    I've said this several times now but there is very little difference between the two methods in real world use depending on gantry design. The type and design of machine/gantry is a better selector for which method is best.
    In this case it would restrict the travel of the Z axis which would require the gantry is made taller to get the travel back. This negates any advantage that rails on the front plate would have and actually turns it into a disadvantage because tall gantry sides introduce more vibrations at the spindle which negatively affects finish quality and tool wear.

    Also because the gantry is short n stubby with a short front plate, which is a good thing, the cutting forces are transferred straight back into rear plate at all times.
    Yes there is a constant length lever affect but it's short and not an issue when cutting, however the advantage in cutting height it gives is well worth the tiny difference.
    The short stubby gantry makes this possible.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:45 AM.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

  10. #8
    RobC's Avatar
    Lives in manchester, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 7 Hours Ago Has been a member for 3-4 years. Has a total post count of 69. Received thanks 13 times, giving thanks to others 4 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddy View Post
    "you likely will need to buy a Uc100 to convert from USB to Parallel if you do not have a parallel capable motherboard."


    Fixed that for you
    I have no idea why serial was in my head, haha thanks!

  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    No that's the case with this design and it will restrict the machine rather than make it better unless the whole gantry is re-designed to account for it.!

    I've said this several times now but there is very little difference between the two methods in real world use depending on gantry design. The type and design of machine/gantry is a better selector for which method is best.
    Hi JAZZCNC.

    I will study this one,

    I Always thought mounting the horizontal and vertical bearingblocks on the 4 corners of a single piece of rigid plate would always beat any other setup and would result in the most stif setup.

    No influense from flex there.

    The flex in the moving zplate could be made less by putting on 2 big motor mounts using round type spindle motormounts.

    In this case the spindle motor is square which makes that one a bit easier.

    I would have thought having a bigger lumb of metal (rail rizers, square rails, z plate, motor mounts, bolted to the spindle would lessen the vibrations.


    So I have something to think about.

    It is good to have al these experienced guys here.


    Grtz Bert.




    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk

  12. #10
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 11 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 7,356. Received thanks 1,264 times, giving thanks to others 80 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by driftspin View Post
    Hi JAZZCNC.

    I will study this one,

    I Always thought mounting the horizontal and vertical bearingblocks on the 4 corners of a single piece of rigid plate would always beat any other setup and would result in the most stif setup.

    No influense from flex there.

    The flex in the moving zplate could be made less by putting on 2 big motor mounts using round type spindle motormounts.

    In this case the spindle motor is square which makes that one a bit easier.

    I would have thought having a bigger lumb of metal (rail rizers, square rails, z plate, motor mounts, bolted to the spindle would lessen the vibrations.


    So I have something to think about.

    It is good to have al these experienced guys here.


    Grtz Bert.




    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A505FN met Tapatalk
    Like I say it depends on the design but in most cases the difference is negligible and other areas of the machine often overlooked will have a bigger impact.
    In this design, the difference between losing Z-axis travel and raising the gantry to regain it will far outweigh any benefits that stiffening the front plate might make.
    Also, it's a mistake to think that the rails stiffen the plate because they don't to any great degree. Plus the weight of the longer front plate and rails have a negative effect in that they require more power to give the same acceleration which is important in a Z-axis.! . . . these are the little things which are often overlooked but can have a big impact on performance.!
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

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