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  1. #1
    OLD THREAD - http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/13855...ve-Fault/page6

    Ok having finally been able to confirm all servos and hardware are working I'm looking for advice on whether or not its possible to just swap out the ageing controller on this thing or will I need to replace drives/electronics and controller.
    I look forward to your comments...(I think!!!)...Thanks in advance...

    Spec:- 3 PHASE

    Servos - SOELMA MP48 DC12.3V

    Servo drives - AXOR - MiniSpeed 200

    Encoders - SOELMA CK58-L-1000ZCV18

    Inverter - Control Techniques Commander CDE AC DRIVE

    Spindle - PERSKE KRS51 14-2-D

    Controller - AMC OMICRON 3000

    Pics to follow...
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    video...
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/VMT1Y9Wx2Nmg9bnT6
    Last edited by BEACHBLANKET; 03-08-2020 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #2
    I was thinking maybe something along the lines of UCCNC?

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

  3. Quote Originally Posted by BEACHBLANKET View Post
    I was thinking maybe something along the lines of UCCNC?

    Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk
    It depends on the drives and if they have Step & Dir control inputs. If not then you can't use any of the UC line of controllers because they supply Step & Dir signals only.
    Most older machines which use DC motors are +/-10v analog control inputs and often they will have Tacho's or resolvers on the motors, thou in your case it looks like you have encoders which makes things easier because worst case scenario you could change the drives for DC drives with Step & Dir signals. Thou it does depend on the encoders as well so you'll need to check them out.
    CNC Drive who make the UC cards also make DC drives with Step & Dir.

    You can get Motion controllers which provide +/-10V Analog output but they tend to be expensive and can be a bare to setup compared to step & dir.!

    If the existing drives do have Step & Dir Inputs then it's a Doddle to convert with just a UC300 and Decent BOB that provides Spindle control and away you go.

    Edit: But I'll say it again because it shouldn't be underestimated how much work is involved.!! . . . . You will have to setup and write your own ATC code or code to control dual spindles plus pneumatics etc. And this machine seems to have a few bells n whistles on it.!
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 05-08-2020 at 12:32 PM.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

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  5. #4
    Thanks JAZZCNC.

    I'll check out the encoders and drives in more detail.

    The one thing I would probably change is the pneumatic head change.

    One head will more than suffice so it could be fixed directly to the Z negating the pneumatics etc.

  6. #5
    Existing AXOR - MiniSpeed 200 Drives spec

    Tachogenerator feedback ✔
    Armature feedback ✔
    Torque mode feedback ✔
    SMT technology ✔
    IGBT or POWER MOSFET bridge ✔
    ✔ Encoder feedback
    PWM + Dir. feedback

    So the drives are PWM and not step and direct... there is literally nothing I can find on the encoders...

    Due to my lack of CNC and machine code experience...Do you think I should really be looking at a full swap out i.e Controller/drives/motors?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by BEACHBLANKET View Post
    So the drives are PWM and not step and direct... there is literally nothing I can find on the encoders...

    Due to my lack of CNC and machine code experience...Do you think I should really be looking at a full swap out i.e Controller/drives/motors?
    Ok well, I don't have any experience of controlling drives with PWM but my limited understanding is it's very much like +/-0-10v and while many controllers have PWM outputs I don't think they will be accurate or fast enough for this application.
    However, I do know MESA who make cards that work with LinuxCNC do a card that will output PWM to do this but trust me it's a massive learning curve to undertake and I wouldn't advise it for a new user.

    Regards full swap out then I suppose it depends on your budget and what your plans are for the machine.?
    If I was using this machine as part of my business then it would be a full swap out for reliability reasons and easy access to replacement parts if it went down.

    If it was for semi business that isn't reliant on the machine then I'd probably just swap out the controller and drives for Step + Dir DC drives and reuse the old motors.

    If it was solely for playing around with then I'd probably look at LinuxCNC and MESA cards and reuse everything but the old controller.

    Regards the Encoders the numbers point to it being 1000 line encoder but whether or not it'ss single-ended or Differential or not I couldn't say but it's easy to find out. Just count the number of wires coming out of the encoder. Single-ended will have 5 wires, Differential will have 8 wires.

    Edit: You could also always go with a controller that outputs +/-0-10v of which there are a few. Cslabs IP-A or the ET10 from PV-automation and there are others.
    Also again MESA makes +/-10v cards that will work nicely but again you'll have a learning curve because while LinuxCNC and MESA are super powerful they are unforgiving beasts and not very intuitive to set up for a beginner.
    To give an example I'm very experienced but I've just built a plasma table that uses MESA - Linux with servos and I don't mind admitting I struggled massively at first and needed a lot of encouragement from an experienced Linux user (Clives S) to stop me from smashing the F@~#ing thing to pieces. Great when it's working but a B'##'rd to get working correctly.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 05-08-2020 at 04:10 PM.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to JAZZCNC For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    Yes I looked at LinuxCNC after Routerdriver mentioned it...daunting!

    I bought the machine for £500 and went 50/50 with my brother in law, my initial idea being that it provided an excellent mechanical base to start from even if everything electrical needed replacing.

    We are looking to start a new business and this machine will form some small part of that business, mainly 2d cutting sheet ply, along with hobby stuff (small 3d stuff, photo carving, sculpture etc. hence the interest in the Vectric Software)

    I'm a bit of a recycle reuse nut so the idea of being able to upgrade as little as possible is the most appealing. However given that it's taken me nearly 100 hours to figure out the existing controller/head/software/post processor setup I need to be realistic with time in order to get this up and running efficiently.

    I think budget wise, at this point in time we could probably put in another £600 or so what would that get us?

    I can't find anything on the encoders in the schematic drawings I have so I'll check wires tomorrow when I'm back with machine.

  10. #8
    Just reading your conversion thread using the SZGH controller etc...

    I'm guessing realistically we are looking at changing the encoders, drives and controller...

  11. #9
    I hope it doesn't come as too much of a shock but the comments about the amount of work involved in post #3 will apply no matter what control system you change to.As it is you have a machine with a serious,but dated,integral controller and it sort of works.The alternatives involve running a PC front end to achieve the same performance and a mountain of work to get to where you are now in terms of producing parts.

    You also need to get a lot more familiar with both CAD and CAM software in order to generate the Gcode.If there is any kind of business imperative requiring parts to go out of the door and bring in an income it may all take quite a while.Unless you get going with whats there and learn more about the upgrade path in the background i.e. evenings and weekends so a quick and effective swap can take place while still producing during the day,it could be s long time before you make any money.

    All CAM software has the same requirements,a series of connected elements for outlines holes located where required and a list of tools with which to cut the parts.You may have to set the tools accurately in their collets and model them precisely in a tool library.Then you tell the program which of the tools will be required for each operation,which side of the line it has to go and how deep it has to cut.At which point you post process the information and send it to the machine.I don't know if you have to draw within AlphaCAM or if you are importing from other software,to an extent it doesn't matter,just as long as complete information is present.The difficulty you seem to be having is setting the part datum relative to the home position,otherwise your dated software seems to be working.Have you compared an AlphaCAM upgrade to the cost of the alternative hardware and the extensive learning and development process?

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  13. Ok well you have bought it right and it would be a shame to spoil it by cutting corners because you'll never build anything like it for £500, it wouldn't even buy the steel.!

    Now regards your intention to use it for a business then I can tell you now that you'll use this machine far more than you ever think you will and in ways you probably haven't imagined yet.!
    I see this happen all the time with machines I build, people start off with an intention to do this and that on a limited basis and very quickly they are going off at tangents cutting things they never dreamt about then next thing the machine is flat out busy and they want another or bigger machine.
    So what I'm saying is invest now and get it running properly because it will cost more later when it's holding you back or breaking down which is the worst thing you need when orders are stacking up.!

    £600 will just about get you an Analog controller which would get you going with the existing drives etc.

    For a complete refit if you buy Servo Drives and motors from China then you'll just about do it for £2k for a full refit with controller etc.

    But even then if you had £3k in the machine fully fitted you have a very cheap machine and it's the route I would take if using for business, even a small business.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

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