What software do you use on these chinese machines

[AlanJ]

Hi, newbie question here. Apologies if this is already covered, but I couldn't find an answer browsing this area of the forum.

What software do people use for these Chinese machines. Ive been looking at the 3018 Pro and other similar models on ebay/amazon/bangood etc. It's not clear what software is included, or required to purchase or download, to get these working properly.

I'd also appreciate if someone could explain (or point me at a thread) the common combinations of software that work well together to get from design through to finished product.

Many thanks in advance,

Alan

[JAZZCNC]

Hi Alan,

Ok well, basically there are 3 different pieces of software or steps required to get from material to finished part. Well, it's often narrowed to 2 pieces with one of them being combined depending on how you want to work and the complexity of parts.

The 1st step is to draw your design or model and this is done in CAD. Now for simple work this mostly just 2D lines and arcs which you use in the next step and would save in a file format that suits the next software, often this is DXF format. However for more complex work with curved surfaces etc then you'll require a 3D model which again gets saved in a different file format which the next software requires, often this format is STL but there are many others.

The 2nd step is CAM software. Here you load in the File you created in CAD and using the lines and Arcs or 3D surfaces you create the tool paths which are used to create a final file called G-CODE which is used in the 3rd step.
The CAM software provides various tools called cutting strategies or often called Toolpaths which provide various parameters that you select to suit the job.

For instance, let's say cutting a simple rectangular house sign with 4 holes in each corner and "V" carved house name in the center. In CAD you would draw the rectangle, place the text and a circle in each corner.

Now in CAM, you would use 3 Different cutting strategies to achieve this. So the first thing we'll do is drill the 4 holes by selecting the circles, for this, we'll use a Drilling toolpath. Here you set various things like Drill size, Cut speed, Spindle RPM, and other settings that relate to drilling holes, like peck drilling rather than plunging straight down.

Next, we'll create the Text by selecting all the lines of the text. Now for this, we are going to use a "V" shaped cutter using a dedicated toolpath for V carving. Again there are various parameters like cutter size, Speeds, etc along with other parameters that relate to V carving.

Finally, we'll cut the rectangle out. Again we use a different cutting strategy called a PROFILE toolpath. The theme is the same as the other tool-paths where we select tools and speeds etc. Now the level of CAM software will to some degree determine the options each toolpath provides, for instance, a common option in a PROFILE toolpath is to add TABS which helps to hold the part when cutting it out so it doesn't fly off the bed. However, lesser or cheaper CAM packages might not.? you get what you pay for.!

Now after we have created each toolpath we need to create the G-code for the 3rd step. This is a kind of 2.1 step process within CAM called POST PROCESSING. This basically means a file is created in a language that the 3rd step can understand because with the 3rd step there are many different types and all speak a different language.
In use, it's seamless to you but it is something you need to be aware of because if you have the wrong POST selected for the 3rd step they won't understand each other. Also if the 3rd piece of software isn't supported by the CAM software then it's useless to you.!

So creating the G-code file consists of selecting the tool-paths, now here we have a few choices. We can either create a separate G-code file for each tool-path or we can select all of them and create one large G-code file which cuts the part in one go using all 3 paths and tools. The order it does this depends on the order you select them.
When we have selected the tool-paths we send them to POST Processor which creates the G-code file for the 3rd step.

Now, Steps 1 and 2 or CAD and CAM can be combined in one package. This Combo software is ok but often limited on the CAD so many people find using a dedicated CAD package quicker or easier. Vectric products are a good example of CAD/CAM and very good.

Ok Now Step 3.
This is the Control software for the machine. Mach3, UCCNC, LinuxCNC, etc are all control software.
The control software does several jobs and it often scares people but it shouldn't really because from a USERS point of view it's actually very simple to use.

In a nutshell, it can be broken down into 2 groups. The 1st group is the settings the machine requires to work. Here is where it gets more complex and greater knowledge is required to get the machine working. However, if you are buying a machine often it comes pre-configured with the setting which it needs to work and you don't need to know anything about it. This all happens in the background.

The 2nd group is what the users care about and thankfully this is very simple.
You start the control software, you push a button on the screen which sets the HOME position for the machine. If the machine as them it will move until it trips a switch, this switch then sets the HOME position for you. The purpose of this is so if anything goes wrong while cutting you can easily get back into position.

Now you load the G-code file you created. In Cam, one of the options is to set a WORK ZERO position for the Job. Now you will move the machine axis to a point on your material that you want to cut the part from and will call this WORK ZERO by pushing buttons on the screen for each axis. ie Zero X, Zero Y, Zero Z.

Lastly, you push CYCLE START and off it pops and cuts the Job. If the machine is set up to do so it will start the spindle for you and control the speed, if not then you will need to do this your self before pushing CYCLE START.
If you created one Large file it will stop at each tool change and wait for you to change the tool and reset the Z-axis ZERO point.

I hope this helps and ask if you are not sure. The whole process of CAM and cutting parts quickly becomes second nature.

[AlanJ]

thank you [mention]JAZZCNC [/mention] that is a fantastic reply and tons of info for a newbie really helpful for me. it helps me understand the order of processing.

i’ve got a lot more studying of the forum posts to do.


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[Doddy]

To answer your first question, but into the template that Jazz provided - I use "Fusion 360 - Design" for the first step (Design), "Fusion 360 Manufacture" for the second (CAM), and UCCNC for the last (actual machine control). Or on the lathe I replace UCCNC with LinuxCNC - but only because the former isn't designed for Lathes.

The one 3018 engraver I've quickly looked at on eBay bundles GRBL Control software. GRBL is a subset of G-Code, that Jazz refers to above supported by a microcontroller-based machine motion controller (the PCB/brains included with the 3018) - that is a special-to-type instance of the machine-control software (the third phase of the software discussed above). You're likely pretty much tied to that in the first instance when/if you buy the 3018, so that helps you make a decision on the software tool chain.

[AlanJ]

so if i’m understanding this right with those cheap chinese kits. you need some other software for the first two stages, and you are more or less at the mercy of the quality of the low level software they give you with the machine. (i presume this is loaded on the arduino that comes with the control board)


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[Doddy]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. In the images that I've seen of the 3018 bundled software (and that is the limit of my exposure to this) - it shows that the manual controllers allow you to load ".nc" files from SD-Card, or issue the same file from the grblControl software - just like you would with the early reprap 3D printers (no surprise as the GRBL controllers all derive from the same architecture). That gives you the flexibility of using your own design software and whatever CAM process you desire - the only stipulation being that the output is compatible with the GRBL subset. That's all do-able, and can be pretty cheap (i.e. free). But much depends on what design software you choose to you - and that depends on your use-case.

Re. the "quality of the low level software they give you with the machine" - there's two aspects - the firmware installed on the microcontroller (Arduino?) - which will likely be derived from the GRBL project firmware - it's basic, but it works for what it is - millions of 3D printers use this; don't expect the world and you won't go far wrong. The biggest challenge will be the performance of the GRBL interpreter but you're asking probably less from a 3018 than from a 3D printer in terms of throughput, so probably not much to got wrong. The PC-side software... yeah, a little basic from the screenshots I'm looking at, but an interesting (and somewhat trivialised) entry into the CNC world.

You could... and I say this just to cover one base, replace the electronics much later down the line and use the hardware to support a more "conventional" (I'm not sure I'm using the appropriate word there) approach to the more robust world of CNC and controller software, but in honesty you'd probably outgrow the 3018 hardware a long time before you'd want to go that far.

[AlanJ]

thank you yes that makes sense. so those cheap machines are really a training tool in my mind. (i’m not saying you can’t use them to produce anything but it sounds like they are limited....)

i guess you are wasting money spending a few £100 more on the supposedly better models, ie just buy a cheap one, learn, learn, learn and then if you like it spend a couple/few £grand on a proper setup


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[Doddy]

I don't want to attack these machines - they are what they are, but I think you're close in your estimation of them. I'm sure for light duty work they can be useful - probably more in the engraving domain, and that of soft materials. The mechanical build is slight, tolerance poor, and spindle capability limited (Ouch!, I'm really biting my tongue hard there). But they serve a purpose, even if that purpose is mainly to frustrate people who expect too much from the machines. The larger machines can be more capable, typically proportionally stiffer and stronger, but you're probably more realistic with your final costings if you're looking to get anywhere near to cutting aluminium (you mention that on your intro thread).

Of interest (for someone trying to declutter), you've identified a particularly small machine - have you a particular minimum build volume in mind?

[AlanJ]

i have no idea size wise. most of the things i’m making would typically have faceplates no bigger than 200mm x150mm. must a lot smaller eg 150mm x 40


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[JAZZCNC]

If you want a serious CNC machine that is capable of cutting aluminum correctly and will be reliable then expect to pay at least £2k. Anything less will only cost you more money long term in wasted material, tools an time, and like Doddy says lead to frustrations.

If you just want to learn and are prepared to struggle with basic software and accept the limitations of the machine then the cheap eBay machines are a good entry into CNC.