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Thread: Boxford TCL 125

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  1. #11
    Thanks Inee
    I suspect that will all fall into place when I get the machine on my bench.
    Will keep you all posted .
    I have agreed (after a bit of haggling) to buy an auto toolchanger so the project has just extended a bit
    Pricey kit , but if I had to buy a toolpost anyway the extra seems justified.

  2. #12
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 25-09-2021 Has been a member for 2-3 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    Forgot to say be careful around the motor output wiring and change over relay as it can be about 180v if it's running the motor.
    the easiest way to use the wiring diagram is to print several copies, then say follow the live mains wire and colour it brown with a pencil, next print colour neutral wire blue. Or even do it on the computer, much quicker, if your eyesights good.
    That way all the parts for motor control will be a lot easier to wire, i will post a bit more info when i can find it

  3. #13

  4. #14
    Hi folks
    Machine arrived today so couldn,t wait to plug in and see what works.
    Circuit breaker was tripped so pressed the button and Big bang . Workshop electrics all tripped too.
    opened up Explored a bit , tried again , and there was a big flash behind the fan. Supply to fan was lying loose on the fan casing so a dead short .
    Sorted that and then switched on again. and presto! Power, fan running , lights on the panel , spindle starts and runs , speed can be increased/ reduced . Stops as required.
    Try rev button, starts it up again but in in forward direction so am I right in presuming reversing relay is not working??

    And doesnt seem to want to jog x or z .
    Will try to upload some pics !

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    Am a bit concerned about the snipped off wiring at the spindle motor but from the previous diagram it looks like only two wires required

    Wondring what the missing fuse does? And the little 12v indian gismo which looks like the meece have been chewing

    5v and 12 V lights showing so something is promising

    I have a BOB and a serial cable so now wondering where to find the appropriate connections to feed the drivers .

    Thanks in advance to those who can point me in the right direction
    Last edited by John11668; 07-09-2020 at 06:42 PM.

  5. #15
    Doddy's Avatar
    Lives in Preston, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Hours Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,341. Received thanks 186 times, giving thanks to others 64 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Indian gismo = bridge rectifier. Easy to replace if you want it looking cosmetically okay. Converts incoming AC supply (from a transformer?) to DC.

    Missing fuse carrier (rather than fuse) - yeah, a bit of stuff unpopulated on the board - probably for that - at 500mA it's nothing big that you're missing. Maybe an option on a different machine? Don't worry it - it's never been fitted.

    Snipped wires... complete guesswork - but the one thing you'd need on a lathe is a spindle encoder - I wonder...

  6. #16
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 25-09-2021 Has been a member for 2-3 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    on the pic with the relay, Lift the lid and move the red lever to the opposite side, then switch power on ,try the spindle reverse again. hopefully it will run.
    If you hear a clock again don't worry as its probably the relay switching back to fwd, if it does then power up then lift the lid and operate red lever again, reverse should work. let us know how you get on with that.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    the snipped wires, don't sweat over it.
    The fat middle wire is an earth, the two other wires are a thermal cut out, i think it mentions it in the lenze manual
    if the motor still wont reverse, unplug the machine grab a coffee. then do a continuity test on the rev switch, again let us know if it works.

    .Click image for larger version. 

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    The grey sleeved wire goes to the two optical sensors one is san index pulse ,the other is for timing, if you remove the panel on the front of the lathe at the chuck end, you can see where it goes to the slit disc inside the pulley cover.
    While you're at it check all the interlocks work.
    Let us know how you get on, how many wires are in the ribbon cable ?

    some where i have a note about connecting a bob to the boards that are already there.

    The missing components on the board are mostly to do with using the 3rd stepper driver on the board for the tool changer. Boxford did some weird thing with the turret and one axis sharing the wiring.

    That missing fuse is bugging me as it goes into one of the Bridge rectifiers .
    Last edited by inee; 08-09-2020 at 02:16 AM. Reason: forgot the images doh

  7. #17
    Right !
    so taking things one at a time .
    I operate the stop / fwd / reverse buttons on the panel
    Forward and reverse buttons both cause the spindle to operate, but both in forward direction. Both will allow speeding up of the rotation by pressing a number of times , or indeed by holding down . Regardless of whether I press forward or reverse the forward light comes on .

    If I then move over the relay switch then the spindle indeed reverses, but all the switches operate as above ie both switches start the reverse motion and still it is the forward light comes on.!

    I have tried been given the number of the suppliers "boxford engineer" and have tried to make contact but not holding out much hope
    Not that I expect much technical help here . But he is the guy who was supposed to have proved that all the motions were operable.

    Looking at the diagram you posted Inee it looks as if operation of RL3 should reverse the direction, and I presume this should happen on operation of the reverse button. I presume the switch is selecting the direction of the static position. If the reverse button starts and accelerates the motion then my logic is telling me that the button is functioning so could it be that the relay itself may not be changing over .

    Or maybe I am getting beyond myself here ?? Dont be afraid to tell me if I am.

    As you say the missing fuse supplies what looks to me like a bridge rectifier, purely due to its simarlarity in layout to those I see on vintage motor bikes
    I could maybe sketch the connections to that
    Last edited by John11668; 08-09-2020 at 11:07 AM.

  8. #18
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 25-09-2021 Has been a member for 2-3 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    Ah vintage bikes ,positive earth, 6v and electrics from lucas the prince of darkness.

    Have you tried pressing the manual mode switch, then trying the axis moves ,i seem to remember mine having to have the manual button switched on before i got responce.

    Had a quick think, the fwd reverse buttons are dual purpose, in if you press forward then it starts in forward, the fwd button speeds up and the rev button slows down. have you tried,
    reset lathe, press rev button then press fwd it should revers and speed up. (sorry had to ask as it's difficult to troubleshoot remotely) :) .

    can you also switch the lathe off, switch the red lever on the relay to the other position(rev). then power up the lathe
    when you press the reset switch the relay should switch bact to the other side. (if you look at the diagram i posted you will see that the way the 2 relays on board connecting to pins ,12, 13, 14 will make the relay default to one position on power up

    You can check the operation of rl3 quite easily, disconnect the machine from the mains, disconnect the board cable( connector 8) board cable.
    if you have a power supply simply connect pin 12 to positive voltage then put negative lead to pin13,the relay should clunk, next put the positive lead to pin 14, again negative lead to pin13 and it should switchover.

    If you don't have a supply you can briefly short pins 12 to pin 13, then short pins 14 to 13 (the relay should switch over). Be aware that pins 1,2,3,6 and 7 are at mains potential so stay away.

    Can you post a close up of the ribbon connector and its terminal block, one of the board under the control panel, and one of the optoisolater board connected to the lenze controller.

    Let us know how you get on

  9. #19
    Our vintage bike got converted to 12v in order that it could handle a modern starter motor ,which for a 350cc single is quite an advantage . But we did have to replace the old plate rectifier with a modern solid state bit of kit ,
    But we digress!

    Linking those terminals Inee had no effect but the 24 v supply was not there . There was however 20v at the input of the missing fuse and it looked like the output from the rectifier headed in the correct general direction, so took a risk, replaced the fuse , and switched on
    A 24 v led lit up on the board and lo the spindle functions all seem to work as we would expect.

    I will post the requested pics you ask for Inee but too late tonight .

    Traverses do not work yet, regardless of the position of the Manual switch but someone did say it would be surprising if traverses worked without a computer connected so maybe that should be next step,
    I did manage to get hold of the "Boxford engineer " who owns up to not having proven the functions before the machine was sold . It seems he was a factory mechanical fitter and whilst they were trained to carry out limited electronic testing, he relies on an electronic specialist as he needs one.
    He does however have a number of spares so might be worth knowing .

    One thing he mentioned was that he thought there were traverse limits , to prevent crashes , and it could be that these might be operated .
    I will check that tomorrow .
    With a serial connector on the machine, I presume there must be some breakout function within the boards. Might it be time to connect a computer and see what gives.
    Will it matter whether we are running Mach 3 or UCCNC? I guess we will need to know pin identities, etc but I will not go there until I have the benefit of your invaluable opinions

    Looking forward to those .

  10. #20
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 25-09-2021 Has been a member for 2-3 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    good that the spindle goes both ways.
    Mine would jog the axis without a computer attached, gert daft question time, can you turn the pot on the control panel 1/2 way and try again, try with the manual button on
    also check the fuses in front of the stepper drivers, (i doubt they will be blown, but its worth checking to knock another potential issue off the list).

    The stepper driver manual is available online, download it as it shows how they are wired.

    Limits looks like someone's borrowed a part or 2 off the z limit, the black switch just behind the chuck and in line with the top of the z axis is your z limit switch, on top of the axis are a couple of holes this is where the limit switch adj rod fits Yours seems to be either invisible or missing. Operate the switch a couple of times with your finger as they some times get stuck, on the righthand side of the front your lathe is a hole with 4 3mm threaded holes around it, there should be a plate with a switch on it, which allows you to jog off z if the limit switch is on. Don't worry about that now i put it there as i might have forgot to do it later.
    If you remove the Boxford plate on the l/h front side it will give you access to the limit switch wires, and the wires for the index and position wires
    Don't connect to pc just yet, as it's better to check things work, It does look like someone converted it in the past what to your guess is a good as mine.
    let us know how you get on especially after you move the pot,.

    My boke i fely dirty when i converted it to -ve earth and fitted an old jap reg/rec i found in the shed, put some better coils on and cried when i fitted a boyer ign kit

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