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  1. #1
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 6 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,521. Received thanks 104 times, giving thanks to others 67 times.
    So I bought the Hardinge (and Herbert) lathes that Gary was selling a few months ago.

    Fast forward and I have selected a controller, replacement AC Spindle (Im not going to fuss with the DC system) and AC Servos for the X and Y Axis from SZGH, inspired partially from JazzCNC's experience of them (and my own) as well as others such as Hood and other 'known' hobby folk.

    So, stuff arrived today, I think I am fortunate, I'm hearing of other people stuff from China being cancelled due to C19, so I think I was lucky.

    The replacement items is the 2 axis control system with their 'C' Panel, 2 x 750W Servo motors and a 7.5 KW Servo for the spindle. The spindle is 'down' on the DC motor's torque figures however not by much. Going any larger would have needed major physical work on the mounting whereas here, I should get away with a simple adaptor plate.

    The spindle motor on its own weighs over 60 kg, a beast of a thing. I dont have 3 phase yet, they have told me it will run off single phase (reduced performance) however that is enough to get the machine running and working. 3 Phase will be sorted at a point.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Muzzer's Avatar
    Lives in Lytham St. Annes, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Hours Ago Has been a member for 3-4 years. Has a total post count of 289. Received thanks 36 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    When they say reduced performance on single phase, it shouldn't be by much. The main difference is that the input current is shared between 4 rectifier diodes rather than 6. The dc voltage ripple inside is slightly higher but of no concern. It should work identically, with a slight (10-20%) reduction in S1 continuous power rating. I'd be interested to hear what derating they recommend.

    I'd be surprised if you got anywhere near 7.5kW continuous shaft power on a machine like this. I'm guessing you bought this for low speed torque as much as anything, at which operating point the input power will be a fair bit less than 7.5kW. Personally I wouldn't bother with the expense of installing 3 phase when you could spend that money on more machine tools....

  3. #3
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 6 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,521. Received thanks 104 times, giving thanks to others 67 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzer View Post
    When they say reduced performance on single phase, it shouldn't be by much. The main difference is that the input current is shared between 4 rectifier diodes rather than 6. The dc voltage ripple inside is slightly higher but of no concern. It should work identically, with a slight (10-20%) reduction in S1 continuous power rating. I'd be interested to hear what derating they recommend.

    I'd be surprised if you got anywhere near 7.5kW continuous shaft power on a machine like this. I'm guessing you bought this for low speed torque as much as anything, at which operating point the input power will be a fair bit less than 7.5kW. Personally I wouldn't bother with the expense of installing 3 phase when you could spend that money on more machine tools....
    Thanks Muzzer.

    Ive been quoted around £4500 for 3 phase. I am limited at this type of machine at current levels but it remains an option.

    Yep, I was willing to take a chance on this setup and running it on Single Phase. It will certainly use all the current available to it but yes, 7.5 KW of actual cutting load is a lot. If the machine is sold to someone else, at least they know its capable if connected to a suitable power supply but for my needs, I doubt Ill ever need that.

    The hardinge has a belt / pulley setup so I Can mess with ratios to get what I need but yes, generally low torque for materials that are hard or like thread cutting where you might be using slow RPM but need the torque.

  4. #4
    Muzzer's Avatar
    Lives in Lytham St. Annes, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Hours Ago Has been a member for 3-4 years. Has a total post count of 289. Received thanks 36 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    That's certainly one hell of a motor! You seem to have bought all the right bits there and from what Jazz reports, SZGH seem to be good to deal with.

    I'll be watching with interest!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzer View Post
    It should work identically, with a slight (10-20%) reduction in S1 continuous power rating. I'd be interested to hear what derating they recommend.
    The SZGH engineer I spoke to estimated around 20% derate on the 11Kw 1200rpm Motor I got for the Fadal.
    I won't be running it on a single phase but did ask so if I sell it to someone I can tell them the Derate. I haven't fitted it yet so can't confirm this but I will run it on single-phase to see the difference.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

  6. #6
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 6 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,521. Received thanks 104 times, giving thanks to others 67 times.
    So, first impression of the kit is good. I agree with JazzCNC, the cabling is good quality and nice to see that its all included. There is also a dedicated turret input for an 'up to 8 way' location which is helpful.

    I wasnt aware of the IO board, pity, would have ordered one but will manage without or get one at a stage.

    I managed to get one of the motors connected and running. Was getting errors but didnt have a manual for the servo driver but was sent this over the weekend and it looks like it might just have been a connection issue to the encoder.

    On the turret side, they will help write the macro once I explain the tool change logic. On the Hardinge theres a few solenoids but nothing odd as such. Fortunately Centroid have published a retrofit document for their kit which is useful and can be modified for use for this implementation.

  7. #7
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 6 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,521. Received thanks 104 times, giving thanks to others 67 times.
    So workshop is starting to take form and the lathe has been moved onto (into) the workshop. So between the cold weather and other stuff, Ill start with the retrofit.

  8. #8
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,592. Received thanks 286 times, giving thanks to others 10 times.
    Chaz - I expect you've fixed the "servo error" issue by now, but I've also been setting up a 3-axis mill system for a mate (project on hold pending him getting some mechanical bits sorted) and had all the SZGH kit configured on his coffee table for testing. I found exactly the same problem until all three servos were connected. I was a bit worried when I tried with just one and kept getting errors... Seems like a nice bit of kit, though.

    Looking forward to seeing this lathe project progress - good luck!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Neale View Post
    Chaz - I expect you've fixed the "servo error" issue by now, but I've also been setting up a 3-axis mill system for a mate (project on hold pending him getting some mechanical bits sorted) and had all the SZGH kit configured on his coffee table for testing. I found exactly the same problem until all three servos were connected. I was a bit worried when I tried with just one and kept getting errors... Seems like a nice bit of kit, though.

    Looking forward to seeing this lathe project progress - good luck!
    I haven't had this issue but I'm using Absolute encoders and I think you and Chaz are using Incremental which might make a difference as the position is saved in memory and talks to the controller first so doesn't rely on the motors encoder to report back, however, every so often I do get one drive fault on start-up. Can be any of the drives, it's random, reset and it's fine never does it again no matter how many times you switch on/off.!! . . .It's a strange one.?
    This is just on the bench still has I haven't had time to fit on the machine and It's probably because it's rough arse wired on the bench and running through a multiplug extension cable on a 13A plug with no Inrush or line filters but I'll be contacting SZGH before fitting to check but thought I'd mention it just in case anyone else is having similar issues.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

  10. #10
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,592. Received thanks 286 times, giving thanks to others 10 times.
    I've been playing with a 4-axis controller, and I had assumed that it would have the equivalent of "active high" or somesuch on the error signals from the servo drives, so a disconnected driver would show as OK. Not so! However, it does seem that the 4th axis has been disabled so it does not throw an error. Maybe SZGH did this in their initial configuration (although they did make one mistake - the estop input from the MPG was configured the wrong way round so that you needed to hit the estop to make it work! Soon fixed).

    One slight frustration that might be relevant to Chaz as well. There is an encoder output from the servo, and the controller has encoder inputs available. Presumably these are for closed-loop operation although I think that you can configure the coordinate readouts to use them. However, the provided cables, excellent as they appear to be in all other ways, make no provision for connecting encoder output to controller input. My mate who owns the machine would have liked the ability to use the controller readouts as a DRO for manual operation with the table handwheels. It looks at first sight as if you would need to hack into the cables or connectors to provide this capability.

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