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  1. #1
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Days Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,584. Received thanks 107 times, giving thanks to others 69 times.
    So I bought the Hardinge (and Herbert) lathes that Gary was selling a few months ago.

    Fast forward and I have selected a controller, replacement AC Spindle (Im not going to fuss with the DC system) and AC Servos for the X and Y Axis from SZGH, inspired partially from JazzCNC's experience of them (and my own) as well as others such as Hood and other 'known' hobby folk.

    So, stuff arrived today, I think I am fortunate, I'm hearing of other people stuff from China being cancelled due to C19, so I think I was lucky.

    The replacement items is the 2 axis control system with their 'C' Panel, 2 x 750W Servo motors and a 7.5 KW Servo for the spindle. The spindle is 'down' on the DC motor's torque figures however not by much. Going any larger would have needed major physical work on the mounting whereas here, I should get away with a simple adaptor plate.

    The spindle motor on its own weighs over 60 kg, a beast of a thing. I dont have 3 phase yet, they have told me it will run off single phase (reduced performance) however that is enough to get the machine running and working. 3 Phase will be sorted at a point.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Muzzer's Avatar
    Lives in Lytham St. Annes, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 15 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 369. Received thanks 47 times, giving thanks to others 7 times.
    When they say reduced performance on single phase, it shouldn't be by much. The main difference is that the input current is shared between 4 rectifier diodes rather than 6. The dc voltage ripple inside is slightly higher but of no concern. It should work identically, with a slight (10-20%) reduction in S1 continuous power rating. I'd be interested to hear what derating they recommend.

    I'd be surprised if you got anywhere near 7.5kW continuous shaft power on a machine like this. I'm guessing you bought this for low speed torque as much as anything, at which operating point the input power will be a fair bit less than 7.5kW. Personally I wouldn't bother with the expense of installing 3 phase when you could spend that money on more machine tools....

  3. #3
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Days Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,584. Received thanks 107 times, giving thanks to others 69 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzer View Post
    When they say reduced performance on single phase, it shouldn't be by much. The main difference is that the input current is shared between 4 rectifier diodes rather than 6. The dc voltage ripple inside is slightly higher but of no concern. It should work identically, with a slight (10-20%) reduction in S1 continuous power rating. I'd be interested to hear what derating they recommend.

    I'd be surprised if you got anywhere near 7.5kW continuous shaft power on a machine like this. I'm guessing you bought this for low speed torque as much as anything, at which operating point the input power will be a fair bit less than 7.5kW. Personally I wouldn't bother with the expense of installing 3 phase when you could spend that money on more machine tools....
    Thanks Muzzer.

    Ive been quoted around 4500 for 3 phase. I am limited at this type of machine at current levels but it remains an option.

    Yep, I was willing to take a chance on this setup and running it on Single Phase. It will certainly use all the current available to it but yes, 7.5 KW of actual cutting load is a lot. If the machine is sold to someone else, at least they know its capable if connected to a suitable power supply but for my needs, I doubt Ill ever need that.

    The hardinge has a belt / pulley setup so I Can mess with ratios to get what I need but yes, generally low torque for materials that are hard or like thread cutting where you might be using slow RPM but need the torque.

  4. #4
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 13 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 8,408. Received thanks 1,440 times, giving thanks to others 108 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzer View Post
    It should work identically, with a slight (10-20%) reduction in S1 continuous power rating. I'd be interested to hear what derating they recommend.
    The SZGH engineer I spoke to estimated around 20% derate on the 11Kw 1200rpm Motor I got for the Fadal.
    I won't be running it on a single phase but did ask so if I sell it to someone I can tell them the Derate. I haven't fitted it yet so can't confirm this but I will run it on single-phase to see the difference.
    -use common sense, if you lack it, there is no software to help that.

    Email: dean@jazzcnc.co.uk

    Web site: www.jazzcnc.co.uk

  5. #5
    Muzzer's Avatar
    Lives in Lytham St. Annes, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 15 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 369. Received thanks 47 times, giving thanks to others 7 times.
    That's certainly one hell of a motor! You seem to have bought all the right bits there and from what Jazz reports, SZGH seem to be good to deal with.

    I'll be watching with interest!

  6. #6
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Days Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,584. Received thanks 107 times, giving thanks to others 69 times.
    So, first impression of the kit is good. I agree with JazzCNC, the cabling is good quality and nice to see that its all included. There is also a dedicated turret input for an 'up to 8 way' location which is helpful.

    I wasnt aware of the IO board, pity, would have ordered one but will manage without or get one at a stage.

    I managed to get one of the motors connected and running. Was getting errors but didnt have a manual for the servo driver but was sent this over the weekend and it looks like it might just have been a connection issue to the encoder.

    On the turret side, they will help write the macro once I explain the tool change logic. On the Hardinge theres a few solenoids but nothing odd as such. Fortunately Centroid have published a retrofit document for their kit which is useful and can be modified for use for this implementation.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    So, first impression of the kit is good. I agree with JazzCNC, the cabling is good quality and nice to see that its all included. There is also a dedicated turret input for an 'up to 8 way' location which is helpful.

    I wasnt aware of the IO board, pity, would have ordered one but will manage without or get one at a stage.

    I managed to get one of the motors connected and running. Was getting errors but didnt have a manual for the servo driver but was sent this over the weekend and it looks like it might just have been a connection issue to the encoder.

    On the turret side, they will help write the macro once I explain the tool change logic. On the Hardinge theres a few solenoids but nothing odd as such. Fortunately Centroid have published a retrofit document for their kit which is useful and can be modified for use for this implementation.
    If you have not made an IO board yet i think it is well worth the money to buy theirs, it will save a lot of work. I think they are about 50. It reduces the chance of damaging the controller by incorrect wiring, the instructions are in English.although i had to ask for the pdf instructions because the one included in the manual was incorrect. I can send a pdf copy of the I/o manual if you wish.

  8. #8
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Days Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,584. Received thanks 107 times, giving thanks to others 69 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Barron View Post
    If you have not made an IO board yet i think it is well worth the money to buy theirs, it will save a lot of work. I think they are about 50. It reduces the chance of damaging the controller by incorrect wiring, the instructions are in English.although i had to ask for the pdf instructions because the one included in the manual was incorrect. I can send a pdf copy of the I/o manual if you wish.
    Thanks. I wasnt aware of the IO Board when I ordered. I'm probably going to get another servo drive / motor from them for my Bridgeport to run as a Spindle, so will add that to the order.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Thanks. I wasnt aware of the IO Board when I ordered. I'm probably going to get another servo drive / motor from them for my Bridgeport to run as a Spindle, so will add that to the order.

    Thanks
    The i/o board has labels options pnp/npn jumper options which may sort out prox types. Another option if you are using an automatic tool changer (see hoods videos on you tube) is to use a separate controller.

  10. #10
    Chaz's Avatar
    Lives in Ickenham, West London, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 3 Days Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,584. Received thanks 107 times, giving thanks to others 69 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Barron View Post
    The i/o board has labels options pnp/npn jumper options which may sort out prox types. Another option if you are using an automatic tool changer (see hoods videos on you tube) is to use a separate controller.
    Thanks, have seen his vid.

    The SZGH team reckon coding my turret via their PLC shouldnt be too difficult - I need to explain the logic and they will write it (I can then see how its done and tweak as needed).

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