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  1. #1
    Right a new thread on this
    Taking advice from here , I am about to start building a board to make this work.

    I intend to remove Boxford's boards but retain the Lenze controller. Anyone wanting to have a play with these boards shout now!

    What is the function of the optoisolator and do I need to retain it ?

    Then the transformer has tappings at 20v with rectifier ,
    Other tappings at 9v (x2) , and 12v seem to have their rectifiers external, on the the processor board .
    Am I better to do away with this and fit distinct PSUs for each required voltage ?, or retain this and rectify the outputs

    I am trying to fathom the circuit of the relays , with their forward , reverse, and latching functions for spindle control . These have been working so hope to retain them, Will spend some time getting head around their function

    All suggestions welcome

  2. #2
    So in the absence of new advice, I have gutted the machine. Boards out , removed all limit and interlock switches. I will replace those I feel are really needed. Will put in a new Estop , and home switches, so now looking at what is left of the spindle control circuit.

    This is me following the ancient Northern principle
    "Let the dog see the rabbit"

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Am currently trying to identify the wiring I am left with, so give me time on that one!

    I will be building a new panel, with stepper drivers and BOB, and am not expecting too much difficulty with making X and Z operate from the computer .

    Bit of trepidation though about making the spindle operate and vary the speed, in coordination with the traverses .

    All suggestions considered !

  3. Have you decided on the control software yet? That may impact a lot of what you need to consider to rebuild the machine.

    You should have guessed by now that the key to coordinatig spindle speed and axis actions some form of spindle measure/feedback. I'd expect that the TCL should have a spindle position encoder of some description - figure that out (if it can be re-used) and that should make for an easier life.

    When looking at spindle speed control - my experience of trying to LinuxCNC with a closed-loop PID control to get accurate RPM (not really necessary) was thwarted by the internal filtering of the spindle controller... if I could advise anything it would be to KISS.

    You've got the mechanics of the lathe already - the control system should be fairly straightforward. Happy to chat through ideas (and maybe steal some of yours).

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  5. #4
    Am open to suggestions on the control software . Had a look at the lathe function in Cambam and it left me puzzled.

    The TCL has an optical encoder so hope I can use that. it does however tie into the processor board so may also have to keep that.
    The outputs to the Lenze contoller are also taken from that board so may be simpler to retain it than to fix up an alternative speed control but I have yet to fathom that function.

    It only recently dawned on me that spindle speed and Z traverse have to be perfectly coordinated for say screwcutting!

    Would be pleased to have someone hold my hand on this. The published diagrams from Boxford are not great and there is no real useful guidance in the manuals .

  6. #5
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    I presume the optoisolator board you mention is the one on the lenze controller, if so leave it on and use it, as it isolates the 0-10v spindle speed from your control board to the speed controller, a safety circuit.
    If you have a look at the wiring diagram, either in the manual or the one i posted on tudder thread, you can trace it back, control will be from the 0-10v spindle speed output from your new controller, and a switched 0v to the relay, The relay will have a default position when lathe powered this is normally reverse as turreted lathes machine from the back, but if your using a toolplate or quick change tool holder the you can run it either way as default, to change the default direction, simply swop the motor wires over in the relay.

    The photo interrupters are wired together so you have +ve ,-ve ,sig a and sig b . from memory if you trace the connector on the lower board the +ve voltage comes from a gert long resistor, you should be able to trace it back and mimic the supply.

    The whole speed control direction circuit seem to be a bit of a nightmare at first glance ,but is easy to understand one you work it out.

    Will post a bit more was going to say tomorrow but suddenly realised it will still be today, lack of sleep messes with the days ;)

  7. #6
    Right , So??
    Circuit here and I will expand on my issues .
    Please remember i am of the mechanical rather than electrical persuasion so Wiring diagrams are not part of my native language .

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The spindle encoder Plugs into the processor board (highlighted red ) where I presume magical and mysterious things happen to the input , before it is sent on to the drive board .
    RL1 (brown) which is integral then seems to shuffle things in a manner I cant yet get my head around via the forward / reverse (green box) and Latch /unlatch (blue box) which I am presuming is controlling the big grey external relay RL3 for spindle direction

    So the function of the spindle seems to be dependent upon both boards ????
    How can I chuck them out?

  8. #7
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    Hi John
    For now ignore the green box you have drawn, they look to be a connection to the FWD/REV bulbs in those 2 switches on the control panel (most likely 2 thin wires going from rl3).

    The spindle speed is reliant on a 0 - 10v signal coming from whatever control board you will use.

    FWD /REV will also be dependant on the controller you use, at switch on Relay3 will switch to one position, this will be either Forward or Reverse. Lets for the sake of argument we'll call it default position.


    You will need to copy the circuit with additional relays.

    Most s / controllers have a relay on board for fwd reverse if so, there will normally be a nc / no and com connection.
    So you would connect the com(mon) to 0v from pwr supply.
    NC(normally closed or for the sake of quickness On as it is directly connected to the com terminal). would go to one ov side of Rl3
    NO(normally open or for the sake of quickness Off as it is only connected to the com terminal when selected and at the same time Nc will disengage). would go to Tudder ov side of Rl3.
    Sorry if it's too simplistic as i don't know your comfort level with electrics.

    Now if you look at the diagram you posted you will see that one live terminal is also relay driven from RL1 , This is a safety relay to ensure lenze board powers up after the pc connection is made, However as you will be using your own electrics simply connect the new relay (make sure it is a mains spec relay as it will be switching the live supply to the lenze controller) and needs a dc coil ,connect the coil via the on off switch ,so the spindle only has power when that switch is on.

    You can add another change over relay to the spindle drive in between rl3 and your bob relay, will attach a diagram for that option based on the circuit diagram but bear in mind you wont be using the boxford board so these relays will need to be sourced. (PM your address and i will pop an omron my4 relay and holder in the post to you, will be the end of next week though).

    I also switch the mains through a relay via the E Stop switch as mine has 2 micro switches on it one nc and one no
    Do one bit at at a time

  9. #8
    inee's Avatar
    Lives in bris, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 1-2 years. Has a total post count of 21. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    Forgot to mention the photointerupters, the photointerupters can be powered independently, so can attach to a supply board(not sure of the operating voltage so hold off for a tick.

    You have 2 one changes state once per rev of the spindly the other changes however many times it sees the holes all around the disc ,I'm not going to count em ;), but the clue is in the naming of the signals on the diagram.

    In mach or other software the single hole wire will be the index wire.
    the multi holed wire will be the timing wire
    Some software can't pickup the index pulse so then after checking the signal changes, you may need to open out the single hole, to i think 6mm wide ,but do it a bit at a time and retest until it picks that signal up in software's.
    Hope it helps

    a I've attached a diagram which should hopefully guide you in how the fed/rev relays work, bear in mind that rl2 represents the no/nc connection on a bob and although d
    drawn with one wire in from 0v there will be two, i purposely left it like that so you can see hoe it works, the blue wire simply represents the way the 0volts is switched to trigger rl3.
    Can i ask a favour, can you let me know which buttons on your control panel are ,on/of or momentary operation.


    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #9
    Thanks Inee but your attachment is not working for me .
    I am getting the gist of your instructions but I am sure all will be clear with a Pic

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by John11668 View Post
    Right a new thread on this
    Taking advice from here , I am about to start building a board to make this work.

    I intend to remove Boxford's boards but retain the Lenze controller. Anyone wanting to have a play with these boards shout now!

    What is the function of the optoisolator and do I need to retain it ?

    Then the transformer has tappings at 20v with rectifier ,
    Other tappings at 9v (x2) , and 12v seem to have their rectifiers external, on the the processor board .
    Am I better to do away with this and fit distinct PSUs for each required voltage ?, or retain this and rectify the outputs

    I am trying to fathom the circuit of the relays , with their forward , reverse, and latching functions for spindle control . These have been working so hope to retain them, Will spend some time getting head around their function

    All suggestions welcome
    I was watching you orignal thread with interest.
    I've jsut come out of the other end of a Boxford VMC190 conversion to Linuxcnc

    I would be interested in the pair of boards that have the drivers on them, two or three block things about 2" x 3"
    You will be using more modern drivers I assume.

    I kept the Lenze speed controller, but my isolation board on the end of the lenze was toast, so I had to wire the lenze into the control board. This is not that straigth forward as the lenze 0v to 10v (for spinlde speed control) floats at 110v to 122v
    I found a step/dir to 0v to 10v board with on/off relay and its all working a treat now

    I converted an ORAC Lathe to LinuxCNC about a year ago and its been great, It threads a treat which was something I could never get my boxford BUD running Mach3 do. IT all done on the cheap with a PC mother board parallel port and an additional port card

    The VMC is also using a single parallel port card that provides two parallel port connections
    In LinuxCNC set the first one up as OUT and the second as IN and you have more than enough inputs.
    Both machines have a control panel with real buttons

    Cheers,
    Paul

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