Hello from Australia, an intro, a little story, and a rather unusual situation....

**harmo** · 16-03-2021

Hi Everyone,

I hope you're all well, safe, and at least somewhat entertained making whatever it is that brought you to this forum.

I'm a guy "between jobs". I used to work for a company that used drones to track endangered wildlife in remote overseas areas, but Covid stopped travel, and with it.... the research we were doing. Before that, I was an IT guy, applying computery goodness to university-based research, and trying (sometimes in vain) to stop academics from deleting their life's work.

Away from work, I'm a tinkerer, maker, wood worker, gardener, occasional metal worker, and I have been known to work with a variety of esoteric materials like carbon fibre, polycarbonate, ceramics, and even occasionally, glass blowing. Although admittedly, the glass blowing was a one-off project. My better half works for a glue company, so we can sometimes work together making videos on how well glues stick to certain "substrates". So her work supplies me with glue, and I get to make stuff, she films it for her marketing campaigns and adds a second pair of hands. Back to the CNC....

I've never owned a CNC machine (other than 3D printer), but it's always something I thought would take me "to the next level". However, I never had a huge amount of space or spare budget, and I've had numerous other interests pulling me away from starting in CNC. That said, applying computers to my maker tendencies through the magic of CNC has brought me here... admittedly "encouraged" through a somewhat unusual chain of events that overcame some of the obstacles.

Here's a little story:

A former electronic repairman/colleague of mine saw me servicing an industrial 3D printer years ago, and so he (then) asked for advice on how to build the mechanical side of a CNC, and I did a little research to bridge the somewhat glaring differences between additive manufacturing and the higher-stresses placed on subtractive machinery, I spent a few lunch breaks explaining what I'd found, pointed him in the right direction, and he went on his merry way. Since then, I kept asking him about how it was going, and he always made non-committal noises. Roughly 3 years later, it's terrible news, he's diagnosed with cancer, and he called me up to see if I'd like "a few CNC odds and ends".

Since I can always find a use for some random parts, I agreed, and a few weeks later, there's a delivery at my door.

Few... is not the word I would describe it. I got one little note with one word: "Enjoy". I tried to call to confirm if all this was what he wanted to give me... and I found out that he had died and been buried the week before.

Before it all gets too depressing....

Taking stock of it all... I suddenly have the majority of parts necessary to build a 5' (maybe even 6' by 8') CNC router. Except that ever-so-crucial part of a frame to hold it all together. The delivery included:

2x 2500mm 25mm HGR rails and 4 carriages.
2x 1800mm 25mm HGR rails and 4 carriages.
2x 500mm 25mm HGR rails and 4 carriages.
3x 1800mm 2505 ball screws (why the third one... I don't know)
2x 2500mm 2510 ball screws
1x 500mm 2505 ball screw
1x 2.2KW VFD
2x 2.2KW spindles of different makes (again I'm not sure why)
5x Nema 34 steppers, drivers, power supplies, and what seems to be miles of cabling
1x cooling rig for one spindle
10m or water piping
10x industrial grade limit switches
Even more multi-core cabling... presumably for the switches.

So I had a couple of gaps, the controller card, the spindle cable, spindle mount and those have been since addressed with yet another quirky tale. This is getting long, so I won't bore you here. The result is I unexpectedly I have two mesa cards, and a spare 4 axis Mach 3 card, as well as the spindle cable I originally ordered.

Finally... the unusual situation.

Unfortunately asking what he had in mind with all this stuff... isn't an option. I presume he had planned to build a table, frame, and gantry somewhere. But the odd numbers of parts confuse me. Some of this stuff is pretty heavy duty, I sometimes wonder if he was trying to build a mill instead of a router. However, I can tell that he had plans to use single phase power, based on the the power supplies.

So I'm thinking about building a moving gantry CNC router, out of T-slot aluminium extrusion (Ok, not exactly unusual at first glance) but I want to build it in a vertical orientation (well 5 degrees off from vertical) mounted to my existing lumber storage trolley made out of plywood. Simply put, this is the only place I can fit a machine like this.

If anyone has any pictures of a vertical oriented, T-slot router, I'd love to see them. I've never built a CNC router before, and would greatly appreciate any guidance, or tales of experiences, things to watch out for.

So now you know more than you probably wanted to know, feel free to say hi. Also, if anyone knows a good place to buy t-slot aluminium in Australia, I'd love to from you.

I don't really have a design, yet. My CAD skills are growing, but I'm not at the stage of simulating the stresses a working CNC router model. I know I'll have to use heavier duty aluminium to make the frame... but my knowledge of T-slot is limited.

Anyway, constructive thoughts, concerns, or links to pertinent info will always be greatly appreciated.

Take care and happy tinkering!
Harmo.

**AndyUK** · 16-03-2021

Wow.

Well, first things first, welcome. It certainly sounds like you're in the right place and will fit right in.

My advice is to find yourself a comfortable chair, a large alcoholic beverage of your choosing, a pen, a notepad, and a new book marks folder on your favourite browser.

Then, methodically work your way through the build logs:
http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/253-DIY-Router-Build-Logs

(I suggest using the filter at the bottom to sort by number of replies/views to get an idea of "good" threads)

Note down and book mark when you see something you like. Litterally, anything you like - good control cabinets, good wiring, good styling, good chip management, good gantry design. Collect them all together and start a build log of your own, ponting out what your priorities are for the machine (what you want to be able to do with it when its finished) and any requirements.

Start by skim reading the final few pages to get an idea of where the project is up to and if it's worth reading fully. Look for threads with the stars and lots of pages initially. I can't mention all of the amazing build logs, but some of my favourites are:

El Beast - A smaller desktop style machine, but Zeeflyboy does it to perfection, and it looks stellar to match.

Joe's Build - A roughly 1x1.5m build, made with hand tools. I like this one especially because it has some great discussions about the details, and it followed a classic known design and took on board the suggestions made. Joe also started making videos of the build on youtube, so its quite approachable to see how its been done. I built mine heavily based on this and am very pleased with the results.

RouterCNC's 4th build. What can I say? If you want a strong design made with precision... Also another one that has a video blog element to it.

This way, you'll also get to know some of the characters on the forum, and know where to shove their advice or how many hobnobs it will take to convince them to help you ;)

Good luck :)

**MikeS** · 17-03-2021

One word.... Wow!
I'm a total newcomer to all this... only just received the router bit of my kit so all I can contribute to this discussion is .... Wow!

Oh.... and though now living in the UK, used to live in South Aust... Gawler.

**Kitwn** · 17-03-2021

Harmo,
Always nice to welcome a fellow Aussie to the forum. I'm in Tasmania so it may be a while before we can meet up for a

You've inherited quite a collection of goodies there and should be able to build a very capable machine. There is a picture and video of one of Jazcnc's upright machines around here somewhere.

My only sugestion, other than to second Andy's advice, would be to consider a steel frame if your budget is tight. Aluminium costs an arm and a leg in Australia whereas steel is something we dig out of the ground in vast quantities. It's more work to get accurate but you'll find examples of steel frames using epoxy levelling on the forum. Worth a look, especially if you already have access to a welder.

Kit

**Clive S** · 17-03-2021

If anyone has any pictures of a vertical oriented, T-slot router, I'd love to see them. I've never built a CNC router before, and would greatly appreciate any guidance, or tales of experiences, things to watch out for.

Dean Jazzcnc. Has built a few vertical machines There is a pictures of a 8x4 and a 10x5 on the forum somewhere.

I found this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4STVbn_EMoc

**harmo** · 19-03-2021

Hi everyone, (Andy, Mike, Kitwn, Clive)

It's been a busy couple of days where the better half's car engine decided to have an identity crisis and turn into fog machine then furnace.... So I was traveling interstate to pick her up while the parts are on order.

Thanks everyone for all the replies. Of the four responses, at least two imply alcohol is needed to get into this CNC stuff. Surely it can't be that bad ;~) Unfortunately, I'm beyond a light-weight when it comes to booze... so I'm more of a steak/burger/schnitzel with water kind of guy.

Andy, I'm really impressed by "El Beast", and you're right, Zeeflyboy has done an amazing job of designing and "prettying it up". RouterCNC's 4th machine is also quite impressive. Haven't read up on Joes build yet, but I'll read that one soon.

MikeS, Always happy to meet an Aussie expat. Bit of a shift from S.A to the U.K. I assume you went for the rainfall? My better half did a 6 month contract job over in Adelaide a few years back, and loved "getting out of Adelaide" whether that was "the hills" or Gawler, Kangaroo Island, or even Lake Eyre. Some beautiful country out there, but it's not always inviting.

Kit, greetings from the mainland :-) Yeah, interstate catch ups are often a long-process these days, I just hope things clear up soon. The steel frame with epoxy idea intrigues me..... although I will need to do more research. While I do have a welder, I don't weld very often, and I'm largely self-taught. Consequently, I don't claim mastery of it. I generally use gasless MIG wire, so it's closer to a metallic hot glue gun than the finesse needed for artful TIG fillets. My stick welding... let's just say that I'm a novice because I don't really use it. However, I have welded steel trolley's for my drill press and bandsaw. All I can say is... while I'm not proud of it.... I find that the judicious use of an angle grinder with a flap disk with a can of paint can hide a lot of welding sins "after the fact". If anyone agrees with that sentiment, you're amongst friends. :-)

Honestly, I do have reservations about my ability to weld anything that's square, flat, true, etc. This is why I've been considering the aluminium extrusion. Although, like everyone, I am more than happy to reduce expenses if I can get a workable result.

Clive (last but certainly not least) thanks for the link to the video, that looks a bit more heavy duty than I can justify to the better half. However, it looks really well made.

To answer your questions, I'm looking at building the machine for mostly softer materials like wood, plastics, some resins, etc. However, if it can do some Aluminium machining, then that wouldn't be a bad thing either. I don't know whether my collected gear would do more... but in any case, I think it would be beyond my skills to make well as a first CNC project.

As you all know, I have a long way ahead of me, but even if I can throw what I have into some arrangement that's "vaguely working" I'm sure I'd learn a lot. Out of curiousity, what do you use your CNCs for? I'd love to see some of your completed projects.

As always, stay safe, and have fun!
Harmo.

**Kitwn** · 20-03-2021

Originally Posted by harmo

Out of curiousity, what do you use your CNCs for? I'd love to see some of your completed projects.
Harmo.

In amongst making much simpler bits for my wife's weaving and lacemaking I'm slowly working towards a finished design for an electric wooden clock. All the gears are wood and the whole thing is driven by a standard 5V USB wall wart with the precision of a quartz watch. There's a video here which shows an old prototype of the design which is actually locked to a GPS receiver and is therefore as accurate as any clock you can get! Regular readers will have seen this before.

Progress today has been held up by the need to upgrade my CamBam installation to the beta 64 bit version as the standard 32 bit version ran out of memeory trying to plan the trochoidal tool paths for 12 gear wheels (enough for two clocks) to be cut from a single 600x900mm sheet of plywood at once. There are still some other pieces to cut from the sheet but the gear's teeth alone are over 154000 lines of G-code. The one in the video used less code-hungry conventional cutting.

Kit

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/343781598

**AndyGuid** · 20-03-2021

Originally Posted by Kitwn

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/343781598

That video link isn't working for me Kit.

**harmo** · 20-03-2021

Originally Posted by Kitwn

In amongst making much simpler bits for my wife's weaving and lacemaking I'm slowly working towards a finished design for an electric wooden clock. All the gears are wood and the whole thing is driven by a standard 5V USB wall wart with the precision of a quartz watch. There's a video here which shows an old prototype of the design which is actually locked to a GPS receiver and is therefore as accurate as any clock you can get! Regular readers will have seen this before.

Progress today has been held up by the need to upgrade my CamBam installation to the beta 64 bit version as the standard 32 bit version ran out of memeory trying to plan the trochoidal tool paths for 12 gear wheels (enough for two clocks) to be cut from a single 600x900mm sheet of plywood at once. There are still some other pieces to cut from the sheet but the gear's teeth alone are over 154000 lines of G-code. The one in the video used less code-hungry conventional cutting.

Kit

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/343781598

Hi Kit,

As always, thanks for the response. Like Andy, I was going to say that the link doesn't work for me (perhaps because it includes the management interface?) However, while I'm here....

Nice to see that you helping your wife in these crazy times. My better half is involved with making soaps, so I've been making easy-to-release moulds, soap cutters, and various 3D printed textures to "stamp" into the cakes of soap. However, with our backyard/front yard/available space orchard, and berries everywhere, I seem to build more shelving for preserved harvests than anything else.

Regarding the CamBam, as an IT tech support guy, I feel like I need to understand. Did you mean that the memory running out is the bit that has delayed you by interrupting the cut? I can't imagine that the upgrade itself would take you long. I'd be intrigued to see just how complex a tool path would have to be to overwhelm a 32 bit system.

If there's a log on CamBam, would it be feasible to find out where the machine got up to in the G-code, and perhaps?continue on with the remainder? ( I'm completely new to CNC, so if the machine simply stopped, that might be an option. However, I am assuming that a memory issue will simply stop the machine. Is this what happens? Worst case... I assume many hobbyists would just start again with a new work piece. If so, I hope it wasn't too painful for you.

With the gears for your clock, are they the standard 2d gears? (no tapered worm drives or anything like that) that would probably need a four (or more) axis machine. Do you use the trochoidal milling technique to get particularly large gear teeth (or grooves), or is there some sort of "feeds and speeds" benefit?

I'm terribly sorry to bombard you, but I've been focusing on building the machine rather than how it'll go once constructed. I guess I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it, but a little "heads up" might be helpful if you're willing. :~)

As always, take care and have fun!
Harmo.

**Kitwn** · 20-03-2021

Originally Posted by harmo

Hi Kit,

As always, thanks for the response. Like Andy, I was going to say that the link doesn't work for me (perhaps because it includes the management interface?) However, while I'm here....

Nice to see that you helping your wife in these crazy times. My better half is involved with making soaps, so I've been making easy-to-release moulds, soap cutters, and various 3D printed textures to "stamp" into the cakes of soap. However, with our backyard/front yard/available space orchard, and berries everywhere, I seem to build more shelving for preserved harvests than anything else.

Regarding the CamBam, as an IT tech support guy, I feel like I need to understand. Did you mean that the memory running out is the bit that has delayed you by interrupting the cut? I can't imagine that the upgrade itself would take you long. I'd be intrigued to see just how complex a tool path would have to be to overwhelm a 32 bit system.

If there's a log on CamBam, would it be feasible to find out where the machine got up to in the G-code, and perhaps?continue on with the remainder? ( I'm completely new to CNC, so if the machine simply stopped, that might be an option. However, I am assuming that a memory issue will simply stop the machine. Is this what happens? Worst case... I assume many hobbyists would just start again with a new work piece. If so, I hope it wasn't too painful for you.

With the gears for your clock, are they the standard 2d gears? (no tapered worm drives or anything like that) that would probably need a four (or more) axis machine. Do you use the trochoidal milling technique to get particularly large gear teeth (or grooves), or is there some sort of "feeds and speeds" benefit?

I'm terribly sorry to bombard you, but I've been focusing on building the machine rather than how it'll go once constructed. I guess I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it, but a little "heads up" might be helpful if you're willing. :~)

As always, take care and have fun!
Harmo.

Sorry about the link, try the one at the end.

CamBam does the CAD/CAM side of things, drawing and G-code calculation rather than machine control which is handled here using LinuxCNC. The memory problem arose while it was trying to calculate the tool paths for several gears at once. I think it also has graphics problems as well as redrawing after scrolling or zooming takes forever if the toolpaths are visible. I've taken to dissabling each MOP (machining operation) in the cutting list after setting it up so that CB doesn't try to draw the toolpaths all the time. I shan't describe trochoidal paths here, There's a link to the plug-in which expalins it below. This is much the same as Fusion360's 'adaptive clearing' which you may read about. The advantage is that the tool engagement can be kept low which allows deep cuts with small tools. 19mm deep in hardwoods with a 3mm diameter tool for example. For me this helps prevent chipping of the gear teeth which happens with shallow cutting.

http://www.atelier-des-fougeres.fr/C...choPocket.html

The gears are convention wheels and pinions, though the posh versions have some profiling for visual effect. I use a rather fiendish bit of software called Gearotic for designing those. It does have more advanced options if I ever make a router to cut them.

Funny you mention the preseving...Having just moved to a more fruit-producing location my wife is getting stuck in. Our only productive tree at the moment is a peach but we've already had peach jam, peach chutney, peach cake and peach cobbler, with custard! The kitchen is currently full of donated tomatoes and empty jars awaiting processing today.

On the welding front: You have all the skills and equipment needed for a steel build. A welded frame is never accurate enough without further work of some sort even if you are the best welder in the ACT.

Kit