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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    That's nonsense. I have a similar installation and produce a bit more than half of my yearly electricity needs, which is 11 MWh using solar energy. My bill was zero during four months per year the last three years. I get paid for the unused energy, and during this year it meant a pretty good income so far. Of course, during the winter there is very little production and all is used by me plus I have to buy as well. Nevertheless solar power is very good investment in Scandinavia as well, and even though I live in the southern part of it, it is quite a bit north of the northern part of Scotland.
    The issue here is not so much the high latitude (which gives you long sunlight hours in summer), but cloud cover due to being close to an Atlantic coast. I guess in Sweden you are shielded from that by the Norwegian mountains to some extent. The other thing that's a real b***er now in the UK is that if you put in a new installation you don't get a decent payback for energy exported to the grid anymore.

  2. #12
    I produce 4x-5x what I use, and get paid peanuts for it.
    This is ok.
    Peak is 10kWh+, for 6 hours of high production, 10 hours of some production.
    Avg use is about 600-800 W with 4-8 kWh when washing machines etc are in use.

    You state 11 MWh of production/yr.
    /360 = 0.03 = 30 kWh /day.
    = 3 kWh x 10 hours per day.
    This is incredible.

    What panels do You have and how many ?



    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post

    I think that's a severely incorrect assumption.

    Yes? Well, I am not so sure.
    Besides, how would you transport the power from say the Kalahari, or the Australian desert to Europe? You are a bit optimistic or naive... I don't know which, but it is better if Europe makes itself independent and starts producing enough for our own use.
    Solar, wind, water and nuclear energy combined is the future, not electricity produced in the Sahara region or even further away. That's just a dream, which could have a worse outcome than that idiot Putin's stopping the gas to Europe causes.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Voicecoil View Post
    The issue here is not so much the high latitude (which gives you long sunlight hours in summer), but cloud cover due to being close to an Atlantic coast. I guess in Sweden you are shielded from that by the Norwegian mountains to some extent. The other thing that's a real b***er now in the UK is that if you put in a new installation you don't get a decent payback for energy exported to the grid anymore.
    Sunlight is not an absolute necessity. I don't think we have more sunny hours than you have, well... maybe during the summer, but not on yearly basis, solar panels are fine with clouds, as long as not too compact and dark. Snow covered panels produce nothing. Norway does not have any major effect on the weather in Sweden, maybe locally along the border, but I doubt that also, since the landscape on both sides of the border is pretty similar. Also, Norway is above UK. This is true especially for the mountainous areas of Norway. The northern part of Scotland is on the same latitude as the southern part of Norway. Denmark (flat country) is between UK and Sweden, so whatever weather you have, we will get that weather a day or two later, including the winds from the North sea.

    When it comes to payment for overproduction, that's not very good here either, compared to the price I have to pay for the part I must buy. Nevertheless, it is the total sum which is important for the payback, which is in my case very good.
    Last edited by A_Camera; 06-09-2022 at 09:50 AM.

  4. #14
    Brilliant thanks Clive.
    Iíve been running spreadsheets on our East West roof and was looking at:
    Panels on West only ( East or East and West combinations were not so good)
    4 or 6 kWp panels (in series as no shade on roof and cheaper)
    6 kWh battery
    Single inverter
    Eddi water heater diverter
    Zappi car charger (existing)
    Octopus Agile tariff as this allows buy/sell every 30 mins


    Undecided on AC (grid side) or DC ( panel side) for battery but leaning towards panel side as less conversions AC to DC and I think I have more control over the battery(?). Plus many more confusing questions and options!
    Building a CNC machine to make a better one since 2010 . . .
    MK1 (1st photo), MK2, MK3, MK4

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  6. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo2 View Post
    I produce 4x-5x what I use, and get paid peanuts for it.
    This is ok.
    Peak is 10kWh+, for 6 hours of high production, 10 hours of some production.
    Avg use is about 600-800 W with 4-8 kWh when washing machines etc are in use.

    You state 11 MWh of production/yr.
    /360 = 0.03 = 30 kWh /day.
    = 3 kWh x 10 hours per day.
    This is incredible.

    What panels do You have and how many ?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It is a Solar Edge system using 305W panels and I have 39 on my roof, facing south one side and west the other. Each panel has an optimizer and my inverter is a 10kW 3-phase inverter also from Solar Edge. The two trees cast a bit of shadow, and for maximum production, they should be cut down, but we decided to keep them for comfort, they reduce the heat inside the house during the summer.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Incredible, but true and is normal here. My neighbours have about the same using different systems and slightly different installation. We have a yearly production of about 11 MWh as you can see. We have to heat during the winter (it's a bit colder here than in Barcelona), so half of our yearly consumption is for heating and hot water, and during that period we produce very little compared to the total need. A large portion of our consumption is pumped into our cars, we have an EV and a PHEV. The EV is used by my wife who needs it for quite a bit of driving and the car is always charged at home. My hybrid has enough battery to take me to and from work every day for the last three years and when I come home the battery is flat and needs to be charged. This will change soon since we are about to change cars, she will buy another EV with larger battery and I will also buy an EV with high capacity battery, but our total energy needs will not be much higher because our driving needs will be the same. Anyway, driving electric is still much cheaper than using petrol for the same trip.
    Last edited by A_Camera; 06-09-2022 at 11:01 AM.

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  8. #16
    My mums and my father in laws roof pv systems produce next to nothing compared to their system sizes. One is 12 panel, one is 15 panel. In fact, My mums place was already installed (circa 2010) when she bought it and it looks like they haven't been producing for a while.
    Likely the inverter but isn't worth fixing when doing the math, be breaking even over a full 10yr period.
    They're not worth the cost tbf. It's BS.

    Liz truss will sort it....... We'll all be in debt for years to come via government loans somehow. That's how Britains economy works, it relies on debt. The more debt there is, the more it earns. It's all wrong man!.

  9. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by routercnc View Post
    Brilliant thanks Clive.
    Iíve been running spreadsheets on our East West roof and was looking at:
    Panels on West only ( East or East and West combinations were not so good)
    4 or 6 kWp panels (in series as no shade on roof and cheaper)
    6 kWh battery
    Single inverter
    Eddi water heater diverter
    Zappi car charger (existing)
    Octopus Agile tariff as this allows buy/sell every 30 mins


    Undecided on AC (grid side) or DC ( panel side) for battery but leaning towards panel side as less conversions AC to DC and I think I have more control over the battery(?). Plus many more confusing questions and options!
    My Battery & Charger is being fitted on the 12th Sept
    The installation also includes solar panels clean.
    Service every year for 10 years.
    Guarantee on Bat. and charger 15 years.
    Full monitoring with App.

    We get paid for what we generate. I think that has been stopped now for new systems.

    My panels are only 240w I think they have improved them to give out about 320 ish W

    Also you could only have 4Kw on a domestic install at the time, this has now been changed. If I add more I lose the payment FIT.

    The system has more than paid for itself by a long way.

    Good luck with the install.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

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  11. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    My mums and my father in laws roof pv systems produce next to nothing compared to their system sizes. One is 12 panel, one is 15 panel. In fact, My mums place was already installed (circa 2010) when she bought it and it looks like they haven't been producing for a while.
    Likely the inverter but isn't worth fixing when doing the math, be breaking even over a full 10yr period.
    They're not worth the cost tbf. It's BS.
    Perhaps the site needs some maintenance...? I mean, seriously, nothing lasts forever, but I am pretty sure it is worth fixing, unless the installation is totally wrong. Also, at least here in Sweden, the warranty is so long that it would DEFINITELY be worth fixing if it was mine.

    Warranty for me is:

    Solar panels: 10 years
    Inverter: 12 years
    Optimizers: 25 years
    Effect warranty on panels: Minimum 80% after 25 years
    Installation: 5 years

    So I suggest you help your parents, read their contracts and maybe you will find out that there is still warranty. Anyway, even if they need to change the inverter, that's just a small cost compared to the whole installation. 27 panels, even if they are old, should produce at least some energy, much more than "next to nothing". Aren't they keep track of when things break? It is after all, a "machine" just like the washing machine, the car, the stove or whatever else. Must be kept under control to see it does what it meant to do. Everything can break, PV systems are not exception.

    PV systems are not BS at all, and definitely worth the cost, but I know there are many not so serious installers, not only in UK but everywhere else.

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  13. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Perhaps the site needs some maintenance...? I mean, seriously, nothing lasts forever, but I am pretty sure it is worth fixing, unless the installation is totally wrong. Also, at least here in Sweden, the warranty is so long that it would DEFINITELY be worth fixing if it was mine.

    Warranty for me is:

    Solar panels: 10 years
    Inverter: 12 years
    Optimizers: 25 years
    Effect warranty on panels: Minimum 80% after 25 years
    Installation: 5 years

    So I suggest you help your parents, read their contracts and maybe you will find out that there is still warranty. Anyway, even if they need to change the inverter, that's just a small cost compared to the whole installation. 27 panels, even if they are old, should produce at least some energy, much more than "next to nothing". Aren't they keep track of when things break? It is after all, a "machine" just like the washing machine, the car, the stove or whatever else. Must be kept under control to see it does what it meant to do. Everything can break, PV systems are not exception.

    PV systems are not BS at all, and definitely worth the cost, but I know there are many not so serious installers, not only in UK but everywhere else.
    Been looking into it as you suggested.
    The company who fitted mum's went bust years ago. It's actually on of those installs where the company rents your roof from you.
    Will have do do some deeper digging and find out who inherited the bust companies contract.

    As for the father in law he bought his outright at the high rate Feed In Tarrif (FIT). It still makes enough to cover the initial cost and give about £100 per yr in pocket. His quote is.....
    'It's never been anywhere near what the salesman quoted but it will do'.

  14. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Been looking into it as you suggested.
    The company who fitted mum's went bust years ago. It's actually on of those installs where the company rents your roof from you.
    Will have do do some deeper digging and find out who inherited the bust companies contract.

    As for the father in law he bought his outright at the high rate Feed In Tarrif (FIT). It still makes enough to cover the initial cost and give about £100 per yr in pocket. His quote is.....
    'It's never been anywhere near what the salesman quoted but it will do'.
    I have never heard of "roof renting" contracts, maybe they exist in Sweden as well, but in that case the roof owner gets paid for the use of the roof. Just like if you want to rent a room in my house, you have to pay a rent. The only ones who don't pay rent for using my roof are the birds and the bugs...

    As for your father in law, even he should check the contract, because if it is true, and the contracts are similar to what we have, then he should have a production warranty also. On the other hand, the payback can't really be calculated in cash, because that depends on the price per kWh, which as we can see specially now, nobody really can predict. However, the produced power can be anticipated with quite good accuracy. Anyway, what the salesman is promising, or have promised, is pretty irrelevant unless it is printed on the paper he signed.

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