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  1. #1
    Jerico's Avatar
    Lives in Malolos, Philippines. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 0-1 years. Has a total post count of 6.
    Hi!

    I'm new so I hope I did post this thread to the right category.

    We have a very old CNC that hasn't been used in like 20 or more years and since I just graduated, I was tasked to retrofit it. Along with this is the Baruffaldi Tool Turret - TOE100. The thing is, I was told to control the turret using a PLC (FX3U clone to be exact). I refer to this manual: toe1001st.pdf. Firstly, I need to test out the positions of the tool turret.

    The Encoder Code Table shows this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Encoder Code.png 
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ID:	31252

    I may be wrong but through very limited research (due to lack of information in the net), I wired the encoder to the PLC like this (NOTE 1: Supply Voltage = 24VDC) (NOTE 2: FX3U and the encoder are connected in parallel to a power source through DC+/DC-):
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Turret Encoder Wiring Diagram.png 
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ID:	31253

    And programmed it like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PLC Program.png 
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ID:	31254

    The problem is, when I test it, it does nothing. The contacts do not close in accordance with the should-be position of the encoder. Can it be that the encoder is faulty? If my wiring is wrong, can you guys help me?

    If you need more info, please don't hesitate to ask me.

    Thank you so much!


    Regards,

    Jerico

  2. #2
    Are you manually rotating the turret to check the encoder outputs? That would be my first step. And I wonder whether the COM pin on the FX3U needs connecting to 0V perhaps?

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  4. #3
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 15 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,766. Received thanks 340 times, giving thanks to others 8 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Voicecoil View Post
    Are you manually rotating the turret to check the encoder outputs? That would be my first step. And I wonder whether the COM pin on the FX3U needs connecting to 0V perhaps?
    Most likely this.

    Easy way to test the encoder outputs, is with a multimeter. If you're getting voltage, then the encoder is at least doing something.

    BTW, you probably don't want Strobe being used as part of the position calculation.
    Strobe is used as part of the locking process and triggers the locking solenoid timing.
    To calculate position, all you need are the Bits (A, B, C and D). You don't even need to use Parity, as it's sole purpose is to provide a basic value check.

    I still have the PLC code to control a TOE80 using a Click PLC, but I no longer have the software installed to view it.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to m_c For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Jerico's Avatar
    Lives in Malolos, Philippines. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 0-1 years. Has a total post count of 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Voicecoil View Post
    Are you manually rotating the turret to check the encoder outputs? That would be my first step. And I wonder whether the COM pin on the FX3U needs connecting to 0V perhaps?
    Pardon me because forgot to mention that I did try connecting COM to DC- but it does not work. I also did try connecting the blue wire to COM. Nothing changes - the PLC contacts do not respond accordingly.
    Last edited by Jerico; 23-09-2022 at 03:04 AM.

  7. #5
    Jerico's Avatar
    Lives in Malolos, Philippines. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 0-1 years. Has a total post count of 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Most likely this.

    Easy way to test the encoder outputs, is with a multimeter. If you're getting voltage, then the encoder is at least doing something.

    BTW, you probably don't want Strobe being used as part of the position calculation.
    Strobe is used as part of the locking process and triggers the locking solenoid timing.
    To calculate position, all you need are the Bits (A, B, C and D). You don't even need to use Parity, as it's sole purpose is to provide a basic value check.

    I still have the PLC code to control a TOE80 using a Click PLC, but I no longer have the software installed to view it.
    I'll try to test it. If it does not provide voltage, can I conclude that the encoder is faulty and needs replacement?

    In regards to Strobe and Parity, If I understand correctly, I should remove Strobe and Parity to the position calculation (the PLC program I showed) right? Then, I will use Strobe for another rung for the locking process. Right? And I should completely remove Parity from the PLC program and disconnect Parity from wiring?

    Too bad to hear about the PLC program of Click PLC. That would be a great resource to have in the next steps.

  8. #6
    Doddy's Avatar
    Lives in Preston, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 6 Hours Ago Has been a member for 8-9 years. Has a total post count of 1,364. Received thanks 188 times, giving thanks to others 66 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    I may have repaired a similar encoder (at least I recognise the name of the turret) before now for another forum guest. Anyway, the first thing I'd look at is if there's a pull-up on the inputs to the PLC. Gimme a sec, let's see if I have some old photos...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0685.jpg 
Views:	39 
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ID:	31273Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0687.jpg 
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ID:	31274...

    If your encoder looks like one of these - essentially, unless there's a common-mode failure (e.g. supply line to the PCB) then each of the 6 signals is independent from the other - and it's highly improbable that the entire encoder has failed. I'd have to really dig around for any notes I may have but believe the encoder outputs are open-collector. If the PLC doesn't provide a pull-up, or cannot be configured to switch-in a pull-up then try with a 1k-10k resistor between DC+ and the output.

    For information - the failure mode experienced by this encoder - twice over two years - was the failure of the photo-diode on the encoder board. Last pass I replaced all diodes.

  9. #7
    I've not used it myself but the Click plc editor seems to be free to download and use. If m_c still has the code, you should be able to open and play with it.
    https://accautomation.ca/click-plc-i...-the-software/

  10. #8
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 15 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,766. Received thanks 340 times, giving thanks to others 8 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerico View Post
    I'll try to test it. If it does not provide voltage, can I conclude that the encoder is faulty and needs replacement?

    In regards to Strobe and Parity, If I understand correctly, I should remove Strobe and Parity to the position calculation (the PLC program I showed) right? Then, I will use Strobe for another rung for the locking process. Right? And I should completely remove Parity from the PLC program and disconnect Parity from wiring?

    Too bad to hear about the PLC program of Click PLC. That would be a great resource to have in the next steps.
    You can still use Parity for position calculation, as it does provide an extra check that the encoder is on a valid position, but Strobe is only needed for timing purposes.

    As per Muzzer's post, I should have been a bit clearer. The Click PLC software is free, it's just that I no longer own any Click PLCs, so have no need to have the software installed.
    If you're willing to install the software, I can send you the code so you can load and view how I controlled my TOE 80 turret.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  11. #9
    Jerico's Avatar
    Lives in Malolos, Philippines. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 0-1 years. Has a total post count of 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddy View Post
    I may have repaired a similar encoder (at least I recognise the name of the turret) before now for another forum guest. Anyway, the first thing I'd look at is if there's a pull-up on the inputs to the PLC. Gimme a sec, let's see if I have some old photos...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0685.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	172.8 KB 
ID:	31273Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_0687.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	279.1 KB 
ID:	31274...

    If your encoder looks like one of these - essentially, unless there's a common-mode failure (e.g. supply line to the PCB) then each of the 6 signals is independent from the other - and it's highly improbable that the entire encoder has failed. I'd have to really dig around for any notes I may have but believe the encoder outputs are open-collector. If the PLC doesn't provide a pull-up, or cannot be configured to switch-in a pull-up then try with a 1k-10k resistor between DC+ and the output.

    For information - the failure mode experienced by this encoder - twice over two years - was the failure of the photo-diode on the encoder board. Last pass I replaced all diodes.
    I don't think my encoder looks like that. The encoder looks like this.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AG10 12 POS BARUFFALDI-p.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	126.2 KB 
ID:	31278

    However, I'll consider what you've said. Thank you!

    Edit: If you're pertaining to opening the inside of the encoder, I might check it later.

  12. #10
    Jerico's Avatar
    Lives in Malolos, Philippines. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 0-1 years. Has a total post count of 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzzer View Post
    I've not used it myself but the Click plc editor seems to be free to download and use. If m_c still has the code, you should be able to open and play with it.
    https://accautomation.ca/click-plc-i...-the-software/
    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    You can still use Parity for position calculation, as it does provide an extra check that the encoder is on a valid position, but Strobe is only needed for timing purposes.

    As per Muzzer's post, I should have been a bit clearer. The Click PLC software is free, it's just that I no longer own any Click PLCs, so have no need to have the software installed.
    If you're willing to install the software, I can send you the code so you can load and view how I controlled my TOE 80 turret.
    I understand the Parity and Strobe thingy. Thank you for explaining it to me clearly. Update about the encoder, I tested it and no voltage was recorded. Seems like the encoder is replaceable...

    About the PLC program, I am aware of Click PLCs and I'm willing to install Click PLC software just for the sake of having a great resource and knowledge later on. Thank you so much in advance!

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