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  1. #1
    Ross77's Avatar
    Lives in Devon, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 2 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 734. Received thanks 26 times, giving thanks to others 45 times.
    So I have been using the lathe and mill for a while now to make small production runs and think it is time to consider a multi axis machine.

    Most of the parts are quite small so it wont need to be a massive machine, just something that can do all the ops in one setup. I started looking at putting a 4th and 5th axis trunnion on a standard mill table but that would be more for 3d shaping and the CAM could be a problem


    The SwissMak mill turn looks about right but is much more complicated to make.

    SwissMak

    Has anyone done a 5 axis project or can offer any advice as to the best setup?

  2. #2
    Interesting project Ross and one I'm interested in pursuing with you if you are interested. However, being honest the Cam will be more complicated whichever design you go with simply because of the nature of the beast of Multi-axis working together. Or should say getting out of each other way.! . . . and that is is just 3+2, it goes to another level when start talking simultaneous 5 axis.!

  3. #3
    I've got some rough sketches done for a new lathe with live tooling, but I need to get my big mill running first, as I'll need that to machine parts.

    The biggest issue I still can't make a decision over is the spindle.
    I'd like to maintain a reasonable speed, but retain good holding torque for machining.
    Oversizing the spindle servo is one option, but it gets expensive, and needs quite a hefty power supply.
    Adding a gearbox introduces backlash, unless you have a very large budget for a suitably sized backlash free gearbox.
    Or you add a second motor you can engage/disengage, which adds it's own set of problems.

    It's interesting to see that SwissMak uses a second motor. I wonder how they're engaging/disengaging drive...
    (and it's worth mention that's not a Swiss lathe. It's simply a lathe with a moving headstock)
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  4. #4
    Ross77's Avatar
    Lives in Devon, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 2 Weeks Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 734. Received thanks 26 times, giving thanks to others 45 times.
    Interesting project Ross and one I'm interested in pursuing with you if you are interested. However, being honest the Cam will be more complicated whichever design you go with simply because of the nature of the beast of Multi-axis working together. Or should say getting out of each other way.! . . . and that is is just 3+2, it goes to another level when start talking simultaneous 5 axis.!
    Thanks Jazz, your input would be amazing. I keep changing my mind (shocker !) but I think I only need a 3+2 and I've kind of accepted that I will have to hand stitch the g-code and a do dry runs to check clearances.

    I've got some rough sketches done for a new lathe with live tooling, but I need to get my big mill running first, as I'll need that to machine parts
    Yes a lathe with live tooling would be another option, the live tooling would be simpler than a rotating head like the SwissMak.

    The biggest issue I still can't make a decision over is the spindle.
    I'd like to maintain a reasonable speed, but retain good holding torque for machining.
    Oversizing the spindle servo is one option, but it gets expensive, and needs quite a hefty power supply.
    Adding a gearbox introduces backlash, unless you have a very large budget for a suitably sized backlash free gearbox.
    Or you add a second motor you can engage/disengage, which adds it's own set of problems.
    Glad its not just me then. Switching from high speed to accurate indexing is a problem and also I would like some sort of auto collet chuck (5C maybe)
    I've seen people use brakes to help with the holding when a lower power servo motor is used so that could be an option.

    So far I have a Myford ML10 bed as the lathe base and a Centec 3b column for the milling base. Click image for larger version. 

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    What's the best way to move this forward? create a spec list and work through it?

  5. #5
    Hi

    Look up Edge Precision on You tube
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCk...XbS4txqPY7OMxQ

    If you want to see industrial millturn machine hardware in action you will not find a better site, The cad cam videos are exceptional.

    If I was going to build one this is where I would look for ideas.

    Regards
    John

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by John McNamara View Post
    Hi

    Look up Edge Precision on You tube
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCk...XbS4txqPY7OMxQ
    I've followed this guy since he first started posting, the work he does and is knowledge is truly amazing.(Thou he can be boring...Lol)
    But John I don't think much could be taken from his videos that could relate to this project.? He's using a 1/4 Million pound Mazak machine with another 1/4 Mil worth of tooling, and even for most experienced DIY'er that's a bit of a job to copy from...

    Quote Originally Posted by John McNamara View Post
    If you want to see industrial millturn machine hardware in action you will not find a better site, The cad cam videos are exceptional.
    The same can be said for the Cam Videos, Esprit is the Cam he's using and it costs a fortune for Full simultaneous 5-axis version. Doubt many here will have it or even heard of it.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ross77 View Post

    So far I have a Myford ML10 bed as the lathe base and a Centec 3b column for the milling base. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ML10 bed.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	209.7 KB 
ID:	27710


    What's the best way to move this forward? create a spec list and work through it?
    What's that Column off Ross, that's a weird looking thing.! . . .It's like a cross between a bed Mill and wood burning stove..

  8. #8
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 15 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 1,437. Received thanks 267 times, giving thanks to others 9 times.
    Fusion 360 has some level of 5-axis CAM and I think that it is in the free home-and-hobby version. Not used it - conversion of 3-axis mill will need to come first...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ross77 View Post
    What's the best way to move this forward? create a spec list and work through it?
    Pretty much.
    Make a list of what you'd like to achieve, then work through the list of issues you need to deal with, and consider the pros/cons of whatever solutions you find.

    Personally, my plan is an epoxy granite base, linear rails, gang/live tools, and a spindle cartridge.
    I'm still trying to decide between a flat or a slant bed. Slant is far better for chip management, but it means I'll need to find/make a couple big precision wedges for machining the base.



    Jazz, it's a small horizontal mill column, which would normally have a gearbox in the 'window'.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Personally, my plan is an epoxy granite base, linear rails, gang/live tools, and a spindle cartridge.
    I'm still trying to decide between a flat or a slant bed. Slant is far better for chip management, but it means I'll need to find/make a couple big precision wedges for machining the base.
    Think that would be my approach as well but using a mixture of precision granite surface plates for the surfaces fastened to aluminum structure for positioning/angles etc then cast around these with epoxy granite to give the vibration mass and finished structure.? Think it will be easier this way than trying to cast precision surfaces at the correct angles etc. What ya think.?

    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Jazz, it's a small horizontal mill column, which would normally have a gearbox in the 'window'.
    Thanks, I've since found a pic.

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