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  1. #11
    I'm watching this post with interest to see what options are mentioned as i have an application that requires cooling.

    I have a TiG torch that's water cooled, it's rater puny to say just what power it's supposed to handle and it requires constant cooling flow or the braided lead to the torch burns out.

    The Tig welded is the new generation inverter model and is very portable, you can carry it in one hand and I'd like the cooler to be the same hence no header tanks.
    John S -

  2. #12
    How do RCNC

    The motors are identicle except one has air running through the channel and water through the other,to be honest even if its water cooled I don't think this will dampen the sound of it in both cases...water cooled is just that it keeps the motor cool for long periods of time.

  3. #13
    ecat's Avatar
    Location unknown. Last Activity: 08-02-2014 Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 157. Received thanks 5 times, giving thanks to others 8 times.
    How quiet is quiet?

    Yes I overclock the pc and yes it is very quiet, but I use 2 radiators with 6 fans running very slow. This is just for the CPU, say, 150W on load.

    http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...roducts_id=153
    http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/prod...products_id=48

    It's a balance between air flow and surface area. Don't suppose the base of your router is made of metal? Nice bit of Ally, even steel? Could pump the water through the section or fix a ring of copper pipe to the frame. It'll kill your flow rate but if you don't have much to start with you may never notice :)

    The tube fittings on the spindle look quite small, any harm running the tube up and along the gantry?

    One more thing, is any part of the spindle that contacts the water made from aluminium? I know you can use inhibitors, but life is more restful if you don't need too. Many pc water parts are made of copper, it does not play well with Ally.

    CNC meets water, see pic 32 and 33...
    http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/files/27.htm

  4. #14
    ecat's Avatar
    Location unknown. Last Activity: 08-02-2014 Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 157. Received thanks 5 times, giving thanks to others 8 times.
    Was late last night...

    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    The Tig welded is the new generation inverter model and is very portable, you can carry it in one hand and I'd like the cooler to be the same hence no header tanks.
    Separate box: Sounds easy with these fangled push to fit, no leak, quick connectors.
    No header tank: Sounds easy but only up temperature X. No header also means no expansion room.

    Do you have any pics or spec?

    Here's some RadBox action from the pc world for your amusement.

    http://www.bramleys.org/radbox/
    http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=983644
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/mothe...ng-radbox.html

  5. #15
    Hi George,

    The spindle motor itself is pretty quiet, aircooled or water cooled. The noise comes from the cooling system which is either a fan on the end of the shaft (20,000rpm) or a water cooling system to a proper radiator with a fan running at 2000rpm.

    Hi Ecat,
    Interesting project there! The ali/copper question is a good point, and is steering me back to the less efficient ali ones to be on the safe side.
    Would prefer to use the internal cooling channels, and not mess about with extra cooling circuits, although its a nice idea.

    I'm contemplating working out the flow resistance of the spindle cooling channel:
    Cut the bottom off a plastic bottle, invert it, hang it out the 1st floor window
    Run a pipe down to the spindle on the ground, with a pipe on the spindle outlet into a nearby bucket
    By timing how long it takes to put say 10 litres into the bucket, whilst topping up the bottle to keep the same head, I can work out the flow rate and pressure characteristics.
    Pressure is mass (of head of water) x gravity x head (of water), all of which are known and constant for this test.
    Flow rate is the time is takes to fill 10 litres, converted back into some suitable units.

    If I then repeat this test but without the spindle it would give me the flow characteristics of just the long pipe, and I'm guessing I could subtract that out.

    If I then select a pump, look at the flow rate pump data at that pressure, it will tell me the flow rate through the spindle if I were to attach just that pump. I might then be able to plug this into the spreadsheet and see what would work in terms of radiator and fan spec.

    I know water has a specific heat capacity value, the amount of energy required to heat a gram (or kilogram?) of water one degree. This might factor in somewhere, but it would be nice not to go down to first principles if possible.

    I have read someone trying something similar but just holding the bottle at ceiling height, with the spindle on the machine on a desk (so head was about 1m). The water either did not flow out at all, or barely flowed, added to my suspicion that there is a lot of resistance in the cooling channels.

    Whatever I end up do, I'm sold on the idea of using PC cooling bits, just a matter of getting something which works and is not too expensive.
    Building a CNC machine to make a better one since 2010 . . .
    MK1 (1st photo), MK2, MK3, MK4

  6. #16
    If anyone is looking for PC cooling bits to use such as pumps, radiators etc then try these people - http://www.overclockers.co.uk/produc...hp?groupid=962

    Used them a few times for water cooling products and always got a good service.

    I have stuck mainly to the Swiftech stuff and had a couple of their pumps/radiator systems running for over a year now with no issues at all.

  7. #17
    Kn8's Avatar
    Location unknown. Last Activity: 10-11-2014 Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 58. Received thanks 1 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    Hi routercnc

    another good source for PC water cooling components is http://www.thecoolingshop.com/

    Ivan.

  8. #18
    ecat's Avatar
    Location unknown. Last Activity: 08-02-2014 Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 157. Received thanks 5 times, giving thanks to others 8 times.
    A few more links :)

    http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/
    http://www.coolercases.co.uk/
    http://www.specialtech.co.uk/
    http://www.aquatuning.de/index.php
    http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/

    Heh, found this, my design for a compact 6 fan cooler...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ... you lose about 10% fan speed irc due to the fans fighting each other, the baffle didn't help at all. I'll have to get a case for this PC some day.

  9. #19
    Big thanks for all those links, am working through all the options now. The Swiftech MCP350 certainly is a good pump when compare to the Thermaltake one, although price / performance ratio is similar so it's a matter of trying to work out how much is required (and to spend!). Be glad when I've got past this bit and can get the machine cutting.
    Building a CNC machine to make a better one since 2010 . . .
    MK1 (1st photo), MK2, MK3, MK4

  10. #20
    ecat's Avatar
    Location unknown. Last Activity: 08-02-2014 Has been a member for 6-7 years. Has a total post count of 157. Received thanks 5 times, giving thanks to others 8 times.
    Most of the Thermaltake and CoolerMatser stuff is so so - doesn't do the job all that well and I don't know if I'd trust it to see the year out.

    I started with a 50 aquarium pump submerged in a bucket, yellow of course. No fancy fans or radiators just good old fashioned radiate heat to ambient and evaporation, lol. The open bucket works quite well in the short term but is prone to collecting all sorts of airborne dross, dust is bad enough but flora and fauna too :(

    The Swiftech MCP350 is a badged Laing DCC. Solid, reliable and there are a number of bolt on tops that give a wider range of connection options, some of these tops include a small reservoir. There was a simple solder trick to convert the 10w model into an 18w model but I think Laing 'fixed' this.

    Thinking about the all in one kits, Corsair and CoolIT have packages that receive good reviews. The down side is that the pump is built into the the 'cooling head', some plumbing would be required, I'm unsure of the metal mix and I don't know what kind of flow you'd end up with. The up side is possibly cost and you can always mount the 'cooling head' to your frame gaining some passive radiation :) or even drill the head out! The kits vary, but this looks sweet http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...57&subcat=1395

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