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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    What power rating do you think would be suitable? 1.5kw? I take it they're rated by input power, not output - if so what is the efficiency?
    Well i would go for the 1.5KW as that is 2HP like i say someone used his at 200 RPM and they can run up to 25K also the higher the HP the more expensive the inverter.

    Phil

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc View Post
    Well i would go for the 1.5KW as that is 2HP like i say someone used his at 200 RPM and they can run up to 25K also the higher the HP the more expensive the inverter.

    Phil
    I might be buying one of these sooner than I thought. My really cheap router stalled today for no apparent reason, and emmited a little smoke. It still runs, so the motor is fine but I think the collet chuck is damaged. It's not holding the cutter on centre now.
    When it stalled I couldn't stop everything fast enough so it bent the 8mm steel bar that I was using to extend the length of the cutter - shows how powerful the steppers are to do that!

    Anyway, I think I'll get this one from this seller:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-5KW-WATER-CO...item3cb17211ec

    It's the cheapest I can find. He's not got much feedback though...

    Maybe get a 2.2Kw one:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-2KW-WATER-CO...item3a61c3d4cf

    Or is that overkill?

    Does anyone here have a dimensioned drawing of one of these spindles? What does the 180mm length correspond to exactly - as in does it include the chuck/wire etc?

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by chip View Post
    nice find jon,they must be the cheapest to date,may have a crack at one myself for a smaller build i have planned.
    Smaller?! Why don't you want one for your current router?

    I'm already designing A/C axis head for it:
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    When it stalled I couldn't stop everything fast enough so it bent the 8mm steel bar that I was using to extend the length of the cutter - shows how powerful the steppers are to do that!
    Jonathan i think you need to learn some safety. Extending the lenght of the cutter using an 8mm bar seems an extremely dangerous thing to do. You are not wearing any safety gear (Full Face Shield) would be a good idea and ear defenders, i know to my cost how stupid it is not to wear ear defenders .

    My guess is centrifugal force took over and bent the bar not the power from the stepper,there is a reason that the cutters are not too long, and that is for safety/stability reasons. I'm sorry if i seem to be having a go at you personally but you seem an accident waiting to happen.

    So this rant is also aimed at the people who think machines running at high speed are safe, they are not especially when you modify them to be even more dangerous.

    The last thing people on here want to hear is of you having an accident or anyone else for that matter.

    Rant over
    Phil

  5. #15
    Sorry I was ambiguous. The 25mm length of the extension piece that was in the router is 8mm, and that's what bent. The rest of the bar was 12.7mm. It wasn't centrifugal force...what happened was the router stalled and started only spinning at a few rps whilst gantry was still moving at cutting speed. That meant the cutter holder was basically bent by the X axis motors against the face of the MDF it was cutting ... naturally it bent at the weakst point. I hit the stop buttons pretty quickly, but evidently not quick enough. I underestimated how much extra force it put on the cutter having it 50mm further out.

    I've used the same 'extender' in the milling machine lots of times before, admittedly at a lower rpm - yet similar feedrate so probably similar cutting force. If it wasn't for the router stalling I think it would have been fine - I wonder why the router did stall? It had only been going about 30 seconds. I've dismantled the router and checked the brushes/bearings and they all seem fine.

    I was wearing saftey glasses and ear defenders - got the latter for Christmas! I agree that one should be conscious of saftey with these things (hence my recent thread about dust extraction!)...I once witnessed someone at school on a lathe (identical model to yours incidentally) put a long piece of 1" steel tube in the chuck to face the end, but didn't support the other end. As you say, centrifugal force took over and bent the steel tube to 90degrees, and smashed the cover off the lathe headstock that protects the autofeed gears shearing a couple of M10 (ish) bolts in the process. The teacher was NOT happy! We had health and saftey in the workshop drummed in to us since the very beginning - using lathe when I was 12.

    'accident waiting to happen.'
    Is there something else I've said that makes you say that?

    My rant over...
    Last edited by Jonathan; 02-01-2011 at 11:40 PM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    I underestimated how much extra force it put on the cutter having it 50mm further out.

    I've used the same 'extender' in the milling machine lots of times before, admittedly at a lower rpm - yet similar feedrate so probably similar cutting force.

    I was wearing saftey glasses and ear defenders - got the latter for Christmas! I agree that one should be conscious of saftey with these things...
    'accident waiting to happen.'

    Is there something else I've said that makes you say that?

    My rant over...
    Your youtube videos show you holding parts while being routed and about to break free from the surrounding material, do you call that safe ?

    50mm extension is just way too long and are you are gonna admit its made of soft steel

    Here is a pic of an extension i made for a Makita 2HP router , on the left is the original nut and on the right is the extension, the extension is the same diameter as the shaft so SAFE anything less is dangerous.

    New rant over.
    Phil
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc View Post
    Your youtube videos show you holding parts while being routed and about to break free from the surrounding material, do you call that safe ?
    I agree that's not the best of ideas - I don't think I'm the only person on youtube guilty of that, though that's no reason to do it. I was careful in that case not to put my fingers close to the cutter. I made sure the last cut was very light and plenty of clearance so little chance of anything unexpected. Generally I do put tabs on the parts which are routed out at the end to avoid that, or in the case of PCBs stick them down with double sided tape. On the milling machine I've put a bolt through the part in the past to stop it escaping.

    It was made from 316 stainless steel (not nice stuff to machine, work hardens), though I'll admit that was mainly because that's what I had at the time. I made it 8mm as that's the biggest collet the router can take. The nut and collet are separate parts on my router, so it would be tricky to make a mount like yours.


    The safety things I won't have much idea is where there's a difference between manual and CNC machines since we only had a very small CNC router/engraver at school...
    Last edited by Jonathan; 03-01-2011 at 12:20 AM.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    I agree that's not the best of ideas - I don't think I'm the only person on youtube guilty of that, though that's no reason to do it. I was careful in that case not to put my fingers close to the cutter. I made sure the last cut was very light and plenty of clearance so little chance of anything unexpected. Generally I do put tabs on the parts which are routed out at the end to avoid that, or in the case of PCBs stick them down with double sided tape. On the milling machine I've put a bolt through the part in the past to stop it escaping.

    It was made from 316 stainless steel (not nice stuff to machine, work hardens), though I'll admit that was mainly because that's what I had at the time. I made it 8mm as that's the biggest collet the router can take. The nut and collet are separate parts on my router, so it would be tricky to make a mount like yours.
    Jonathan there is a saying expect the unexpected. Another is act in haste repent at leisure.

    Ask Trend Routers if they make an 8mm router cuter that projects 50mm from the collet and see what they say. I have had a few close shaves myself so i know what i am talking about.

    Phil

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc View Post
    Ask Trend Routers if they make an 8mm router cuter that projects 50mm from the collet and see what they say. I have had a few close shaves myself so i know what i am talking about.
    Point taken, I looked a couple of hours ago and only found one - a 66mm long cutter with 1/4" shank.

    I'm sorry if in my last few posts I've appeared to think I know more than I do about this. I do value your advice as you clearly have a lot more experience than I have. This discussion has made me think more about what went wrong than I would have otherwise. Still I think there was more to it than the tool extension, since had the router not stalled then I think it would have been fine - it was cutting fine before it stalled.

  10. #20
    Maybe the extension put a larger bending moment through the router spindle, effectively trying to twist the inner race out of the bearings and they overheated? Seems plausible if the motor is running ok but the spindle is out of whack.

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