Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
  1. #1
    Hello,

    Despite some search, I haven't found anything on this forum about this technique described (in french) here: http://cncloisirs.com/Construction/E...ntVictorSendas
    Here is a picture from this site which can help you to understand:


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PrincipeVsendas.p.jpg 
Views:	3842 
Size:	53.2 KB 
ID:	3841

    It seems very simple, a ball bearing rolling on a trapezoidal screw and quite efficient in terms of backlash reduction & transmission without friction.

    Have any of you tested this technique? What are the feedbacks?
    I am wondering what is this "nut" in which the ball bearing is maintained?

    Thanks for your answers!

  2. #2
    My view is that most if not all leadscrews are soft "Not Hardened" the profile of the leadscrew is not made to be used in the scenario you describe.

    So in the standard situation the most expensive part "The Leadscrew" runs in a bronze bush/nut "The Cheap Part" so the bronze bush is replaced at minimal cost preserving the integrity of the leadscrew.

    The situation you describe is a bearing is used to run down the thread. Now for the problem, the bearing "The Cheap Part" is hardened and it is gonna wear the expensive leadscrew in no time at all as its harder than the leadscrew.

    Now you could use a ballscrew which is hardened but then its not much more trouble to use a ballnut and get an even better solution.

    Good English BTW
    Phil


  3. #4
    Well i looked at the 3 page thread, nobody mentions the downsides i brought up, i will not be looking at the 51 page thread.

    Phil

  4. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by LabSkis View Post
    Have any of you tested this technique? What are the feedbacks?
    I am wondering what is this "nut" in which the ball bearing is maintained?
    I have done it on my Y axis as 'Chip' said it's in my thread and videos on youtube. There's a good shot of it in the long video about wind turbine blade mould if I recall correctly.

    http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showth...ding.../page11

    (I've measured the backlash and recorded it somewhere in the thread - pun not intended!)

    I used 16mm threaded rod with a bearing that happened to fit - can't remember the dimensions offhand but I'll check if you want. I didn't put any sort of insert on the bearing - it's just running directly on the screw. At the moment it's working perfectly well, however the screw is visibly worn. Not much, but noticeable. Initially the backlash was very very low (practically zero - clearly you're never going to actually get zero), now it's a little more but still good. Better backlash than a cheap ballscrew at least.

    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc
    The situation you describe is a bearing is used to run down the thread. Now for the problem, the bearing "The Cheap Part" is hardened and it is gonna wear the expensive leadscrew in no time at all as its harder than the leadscrew.
    Easily solved - press a brass/bronze insert into the bearing. I did this for an M12 threaded rod (was going to use it on Z) and machined the insert to fit the thread profile better. I think if you want it to work for a long time then that's the way to go. I'll do it at some point on my Y axis, but for now it's adequate - better than the X-axis nuns.

  5. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Easily solved - press a brass/bronze insert into the bearing. I did this for an M12 threaded rod (was going to use it on Z) and machined the insert to fit the thread profile better. I think if you want it to work for a long time then that's the way to go. I'll do it at some point on my Y axis, but for now it's adequate - better than the X-axis nuns.
    If say you were using a bronze nut "You Don't Use Brass" that was 12mm long that would have a contact area on the thread of (12x3.142)x12 of 452mm approx, using a bearing this way would have a contact area of approx 20mm that's 22 times less contact area not to mention threaded rod is low grade with a poor surface finish so will wear out the bush in no time.

    The fact that this idea is not commercially available says it all really.

    Phil

  6. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc View Post
    If say you were using a bronze nut "You Don't Use Brass" that was 12mm long that would have a contact area on the thread of (12x3.142)x12 of 452mm approx, using a bearing this way would have a contact area of approx 20mml
    True, you're not going to be able to put anywhere near as much force on it - and the pressure is much greater due to the tiny contact area. Probably only a couple of mm, not 20, since it's only contacting at two lines (in theory). Could improve this with more bearings.


    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc View Post
    The fact that this idea is not commercially available says it all really.
    Yes it does. Except one thing - the sort of machines we're making are generally not used for heavy cutting (like commercial machines). I think this method excels when you're only cutting woods/plastics so the forces are low. ACME rod would certainly be better, but I just used stainless rod as I know that eventually I will probably buy a ballscrew.

    It could be good for a PCB machine where low backlash is going to help with accuracy and the cutting forces are tiny.

  7. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    True, you're not going to be able to put anywhere near as much force on it - and the pressure is much greater due to the tiny contact area. Probably only a couple of mm, not 20, since it's only contacting at two lines (in theory). Could improve this with more bearings.
    I was being generous, so its even worse than i thought it was.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Yes it does. Except one thing - the sort of machines we're making are generally not used for heavy cutting (like commercial machines). I think this method excels when you're only cutting woods/plastics so the forces are low. ACME rod would certainly be better, but I just used stainless rod as I know that eventually I will probably buy a ballscrew.

    It could be good for a PCB machine where low backlash is going to help with accuracy and the cutting forces are tiny.
    To drive a small PCB machine a belt drive like they use on the RepRap machines would do the job better, be easier to implement, would last longer and be far stronger. You also do not need angular contact bearings for the fixed end of the screw either. That is the HD 10mm pitch belts BTW.

    Phil

  8. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by M250cnc View Post
    To drive a small PCB machine a belt drive like they use on the RepRap machines would do the job better, be easier to implement, would last longer and be far stronger. You also do not need angular contact bearings for the fixed end of the screw either. That is the HD 10mm pitch belts BTW.
    Belt would certainly be a lot easier, not to mention faster. The 'Rapman' machine at school was pretty poor to be honest, mainly due to not being put together very well though I think! It only used 5mm belts and the pulleys were laser cut from acrylic.

  9. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Belt would certainly be a lot easier, not to mention faster. The 'Rapman' machine at school was pretty poor to be honest, mainly due to not being put together very well though I think! It only used 5mm belts and the pulleys were laser cut from acrylic.
    Your not agreeing with me are you.

    I use these belts on my lathe the Z is about 300mm BC

    I was cutting some tool steel and a bit too hard it pushed the bar in the lathe chuck but the pulleys are about 30/40 each, built it has awesome power. Backlash is 0.05mm

    Phil

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 25-04-2014, 11:35 AM
  2. Ball screw
    By luke11cnc in forum Lead Screws, Nuts & Supports
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 20-10-2011, 01:28 PM
  3. WANTED: 12mm ball screw & nut
    By phill05 in forum Items Wanted
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 22-06-2010, 09:26 PM
  4. Source of multi-start ACME or Metric Trapezoidal Leadscrew and Anti Backlash Nuts
    By MikeyC38 in forum Gantry/Router Machines & Building
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 16-03-2010, 10:11 PM
  5. Stationary Ball Screw
    By Wobblybootie in forum Lead Screws, Nuts & Supports
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 29-12-2009, 01:12 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •