Thread: 1st Build, Second machine
I started off with a £6 router from the car boot sale. Didn't last long ... then I was persuaded to get the water cooled spindle. Couldn't really afford it at the time (Mum and Dad took quite a bit of persuading!) but I'm glad I didn't get the Kress as after having read more about both of them the water cooled spindle is clearly worth the extra.
Super will cost me $181.00 (£118 as of this posting)plus incoming VAT (I get that back as a business) plus the processing fee of max £10 by the courier. Which as I said in the post you quote has very good performance record in not only speed control but in maintaining torque via maintaining rpm. Then setting it up with the System 4 break out board and Mach3 (about two days worth of work including testing)
1.5KW water cooled spindle ~£140 delivered +/- £15. Then a quality VFD 1.5KW VFD that I can get serviced?warranty in the UK will cost between £120 and £180 depending on type and a few other options. Add on to that a coolant pump and Radiator with fans and thermometer for fan control (£150 max). Plus the aluminium for the mounting brackets to be cut as well.
That is why the wait and going with the SuperPID and double brackets on the Kress until I build up enough cash reserves from product sales to buy the materials to go the liquid cooled route.
It is a matter of economics and what I can do at this time to improve control and repeatability of the work I am doing. The SuperPID will be a massive step up in control and safety.
I am looking at the 1.5Kw as that is 2HP and more then enough power for the cutting that I will be doing for a good while. I might at the time of buying the water cooled decide to upgrade to a 2.2KW unit, but will have to see at that point.
I hope that explains my reasoning and in a clear fashion. My only request is that this is taken as ONLY simple explanation and nothing more.
On the machine build side of things the testing of the break out board went well after setting up Mach and doing a few other items. Also found a Parallel port card that has two ports on one card and need to find out if that would cause a problem with information out bound or not. As it looks like a rather nice option for my PCI slot challenged mother board (when I start pulling the rest together for the fourth axis).
Hope every one is doing well and having fun making chips.
NO contest IMO the W/C spindle wins hands down Micheal.!! . . . Unfortunatly it's one of them untill you've used one you'll never now how good they are things.!
Don't need Rads fans etc a simple submersible pump (£15 Ebay 24V 7mtr head height) into a sealed container of decent qty 20-25lt is all thats needed.
Some one asked me a while ago how long the spindle would run without coolant and because it's not something I've done purposely for more than a few minutes couldn't truely give a definative answer other than 5 minutes or so!!. . . .Well as of a week or so ago this changed.?
Now this is the part where I fezz up to doing an embarrissing numpty trick. . . . . . I forgot to tighten the pipe clip on the pump after fitting a new pump resulting in it falling off in the tank. . . . The machine had been cutting Aluminum for nearly 2hours without coolant.:surprised:
The only reason I spotted the problem was because when the job stopped I didn't hear the water back drain into the tank like normal pricking my attention.! . . Now you can imagine my shock horror when I opened the top and realised it had just been cutting 2 hours without water.!
My first instinct was to clasp the spindle expecting it to be red hot and it wasn't.!!. . Yes It was lot warmer than normal but no way would I discribe it as any where near hot and absolutly in no way did it affect cutting or show in loss of power or even change sound.
(This said the temp in the shop was bloody freezing so this would help very very very very slightly.!)
So my point confessing this embarrising cock up is to point out these spindles are very robust regards cooling and even when run without coolant for prelonged periods they won't kill them selfs. So thermostats etc are not really needed or would have even helped in a situation like this unless monitered by software to shut down if the flow stops. . . . . Really a flow meter connected to an estop would be far more usefull. Obviously I'm not recommending or saying it's ok to run these spindles dry in anyway but they won't die in minutes thats for sure.
So now my Answer to the quastion has changed from 2 minutes to 2 hours.!!. . . . . But I don't plan on testing this any further.:lol:
Save the S-Pid money and go straight to WC using the simple cheap approach is my vote.!
I think the water cooled router are much much quieter than the high speed kress any way and much much better on the ears
Agree entirely with everything Jazz just said - was just typing similar post but got distracted. My pump, like the ones on eBay was <£5 and no radiator / fancy coolant. You'd have to try hard to spend more than £25 on the cooling system I reckon. Aluminium for the mount brackets <£10.
I have also inadvertently left my pump off, and yes it warms up a bit but it seems no harm done.
If you want to invest money on a better controller use the money from the S-pid to get the better VFD. Even so, there are many many people who have used the china VFDs with no problems (myself included, got two now) and they've recently changed the design so presumably it's better. Obviously people only post on forums about the VFD if they have problems with it. Jazz has had bad luck with them though I believe...
When I first bought mine they weren't has cheap as they are know so the differential was worth buying local and not taking the risk.
Now thou it's changed and I'd be inclined to take the risk for the little difference between just buying the spindle on it's own and VFD/spindle combo.
The only exception to this would be if your business relied upon it, which in this case then I'd definatly 100% buy local. . . . Not just because the vfd's are better quality, (Remember they are all pritty much built or originate in China anyway so it could be a close call with lesser known brands.!!) but it's the warranty that you really need or want.
Micheal knows this already but for the bennifit of others with business's or folks where's it's critical to keep down time to a minimum. It was Only a few weeks ago this showed how important.!
My top brand high quality ABB vector drive went faulty, it's not very old so still under warrenty and I was back up and running within days, which could have been down to hours if I was prepared to go collect. This for a business is worth the extra investment.
Keep a spare then? Unless the proper ones are less than twice as much as the cheap ones and don't charge for repair you're still winning. I bought my second one and it arrived in about 4 days, not bad I thought.
If you really need lots of torque at low rpm then having the vector drive helps, so that's one reason to get one. Still if you want to do that get the 2.kW spindle so you've got more power at low rpm to start with (and the bigger collet of course). They come up cheap on eBay occasionally.
Michael. I have just got one of the bay for 238 inc postage for 2.2kw +controller. If you want to check it out I will gladly drop it round for you to see when it arrives.
Your machine is looking awesome btw.
BruceThe more I know, I know, I know the less. (John Owen)
Just looking on ebay the Huanyang vfd would be approx £85 x 2= £170 plus VAT and import duty if your unlucky plus the usual £10 for the robbing shipping companys charge.
Yes it would probably be slightly cheaper because you'll get the first about £60-70 if bought with spindle. Yes you will have 2 drives but both will be Non vector drives even then thou it's still a close call if you buy like for like non vector drives that you could get 2 for only slightly more in UK. In this case then for the little extra it would still make more sense to buy local for warranty advantage.
If a business it's something that needs carefull attention and although 4 days hisn't long it's still 3 more than couriering from most places in UK, which could be as low as hours depending where purchased from. To a business even 1 day of down time could make the difference between making money and blowing money or going POP.!!
Personally If it was my main living I'd have a spare all the time and both would be vector drives bought in UK. . . . I'd also have a spare spindle.!
I didn't get charged by customs on the VFD, they said it was shipped from the UK and I can't remember if that was actually true. Probably not, and I also hate the £10! But try ignoring it and you get lots of letters (it was worth a shot).
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