Mounting motor under table?

[Jonathan]

I meant the width of the timing belt should be at least 1/2". You can calculate it ... but that works fine for me so etc.

I would want the shaft to stick out as far as you can get it to as it depends on the pulley, where the setscrews are and the position of the other pulley.

[JAZZCNC]

Assuming there are no clearance issues with the table/nut, are there any disadvantages to mounting the motor under the table, parallel to the leadscrew?

Another of my soon-to-be-infamous-for-low-quality example images:

(not sure if the picture worked, ISP is being a pain today)

I'm hoping that a pulley system of some form would be suitable to belt-drive the leadscrew from that location.

Hi Rogue,

I often use timing belts on machines and in the configuration you plan on using.
I've built several machines which use's them on all axis inc Z Axis and they work great without any issue's. They have all the bennafits Jonathan states plus they have one other little known plus. They help reduce resonance, which if bad can affect motor performance.
I've found 20 tooth 15mm wide HTD to be the best for 1/1 connection. They wear the best and easy available at any bearing company. They also have the best size boss on the pulley for using a decent sized grub screws or small bolts for gripping the shaft.

If you want to up the ratios's say 2/1 or 3/1 then 15 tooth is about the smallest I would use on the driven side using steppers, thou be aware the boss size is too small for decent grub screws so you have to then drill between the teeth and make sure the head of the screws is below the surface.

Also be aware that a lot of company's supply the pulleys with a small pilot bore which you then bore to the size required. Drilling with a decent drill press is possible but very easy to get wrong and create runout and if done this way then I'd recommend drilling smaller and reaming to exact size. . . Job best done on a lathe.

[Jonathan]

Yes they do a good job at reducing resonance.

Also be aware that a lot of company's supply the pulleys with a small pilot bore which you then bore to the size required. Drilling with a decent drill press is possible but very easy to get wrong and create runout and if done this way then I'd recommend drilling smaller and reaming to exact size. . . Job best done on a lathe.

Get them delivered to me and I'll bore (or ream) them to the right size on my lathe for you. Just pay me the postage...it's only a 5 minute job, if that.

[Rogue]

I've found 20 tooth 15mm wide HTD to be the best for 1/1 connection. They wear the best and easy available at any bearing company. They also have the best size boss on the pulley for using a decent sized grub screws or small bolts for gripping the shaft.

If you want to up the ratios's say 2/1 or 3/1 then 15 tooth is about the smallest I would use on the driven side using steppers, thou be aware the boss size is too small for decent grub screws so you have to then drill between the teeth and make sure the head of the screws is below the surface.

The stepper & ratio issue is something I've yet to address. I need to work out the benefits of the various ratios first. I'm pencilling in 1:1 until I've had a good think over a hot cuppa.

Get them delivered to me and I'll bore (or ream) them to the right size on my lathe for you. Just pay me the postage...it's only a 5 minute job, if that.

I may well avail myself of your services, though it might be some time away. Thanks!

[Jonathan]

The stepper & ratio issue is something I've yet to address. I need to work out the benefits of the various ratios first. I'm pencilling in 1:1 until I've had a good think over a hot cuppa.

Smaller pulley on stepper = better resolution, which is generally not that big a benefit.
Larger pulley on stepper = higher speed, up to a point which I've not yet managed to reach.

The main thing is as you increase the speed of a stepper motor the torque to start with is fairly level, then drops. You want to size the pulley such that the motor is operating mainly in the region before the torque drops off.

Also I expect a smaller pulley on the stepper motor will get better acceleration.

Just for example with a 13T pulley on my Y-axis stepper, and 12T pulley (bit too small really) on the 10mm pitch screw I get 36,000mm/min (1417 ipm). Changing the 13T to 30T gets about 55m/min (2165 ipm), and changing to 42T gets 60m/min (ipm = lots). Clearly the 42T pulley isn't worth the extra <10% speed given the significant reduction in resolution. Microstepping the stepper motors to artificially gain resolution is really only cheating yourself after about 1/4, maybe 1/8 of a step. The accuracy of micro-stepping depends on the motor and what it's connected to. In general apparently it is not that accurate, but still use it for general smoothness.

You can do some pretty impressive things with 10mm effective pitch as I'm sure JazzCNC will soon demonstrate...

[JAZZCNC]

You can do some pretty impressive things with 10mm effective pitch as I'm sure JazzCNC will soon demonstrate...

How would you like me to do that Jonathan.? With my little Aztec friend. . Lol

[JAZZCNC]

The stepper & ratio issue is something I've yet to address. I need to work out the benefits of the various ratios first. I'm pencilling in 1:1 until I've had a good think over a hot cuppa.

If you haven't bought the screws yet then I'd go with 1/1 and get the correct pitch screws best suited to your needs. Mainly for simplicity.
2/1 will double the torque but half the speed and so on. 1/2 will double the speed but half the torque and so on.
One of my machines use's 1/2 with a 20mm x 5mm pitch screw which effectivly gives me a 10mm pitch screw but with reduced torque, the plus side being it's a simple belt & pulley change and I have full torque and high resolution but at half the speed, It works good.
2/1 is usefull if you have small Nm steppers which tend me able to spin faster than larger steppers but with lower torque couple these with a high lead screw and smaller steppers can be made quite strong.

[Rogue]

If you haven't bought the screws yet then I'd go with 1/1 and get the correct pitch screws best suited to your needs.

"The correct pitch screws" should really read "what I manage to find when I have the cash in my hand".

Realistically, C7 1605 screw is what I'm looking at: £20 each for X/Y axis, not sure how much it would cost to get the ends turned down though. No idea about ball nut yet, whether to wait for longer and save for proper ballnuts, or look for a cheap alternative and later replace.

My build is influenced by the fact that I've just completed a course and I'm trying to get back into the workforce, hence not putting down lots of hard cash in one go. I'm hoping to be working again by the time the design phase is finished and the purchasing begins :whistling:

[Rogue]

Right, the "intended use" question.

1: PCB milling (from one extreme...)

2: Panel making for instrumentation - aluminium and as-yet-undetermined plastic, <5mm layers, mostly cutting external borders, internal holes for switches. Engraving text. Nothing intricate.

3: Small components as needed for above, odd little brackets etc. Aluminium mostly.

4: If possible, larger aluminium pieces. The "low gantry, tall Z" design is because there might be the occasional taller but narrower piece. (...to the other)

Ideally making new bits to improve the mill or make a bigger, better, shinier one!

I don't expect it to handle steel but you can flippin' well bet I'll give it a try to see what happens :naughty:

I'm hoping that I'll be able to make it stronger/more sturdy by leaving the gantry to handle Z. It also means I can consider adding a counterweight system later if I get adventurous or drunk. I have no idea if it needs one, I just always thought they looked cool. Not... ehh... a proper "technical" answer, I know

[Rogue]

I... ahh... won't go into my original driver plans which involved a PIC and some fairly shaky ASM :whistling:

I was actually looking at the linistepper kit originally, again on the grounds that I could probably put a set together for the cost of a single Gecko in the short term. I know "short term" is a dirty word on this board, and knowing my luck unipolar motors will have a whole extra set of problems attached to them