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  1. #61
    [QUOTE=JAZZCNC;27876]
    Quote Originally Posted by Strike CNC View Post


    Ok first off PLEASE PLEASE don't under estimate the knowledge and expereince of some of the people you are speaking to here on the forum. I know exactly the weight and strength of the materials you use because I use them also.! . . BUT . . . There's a difference between material weight and mechanical stength.!
    My reference to bracing had nothing to do with the material weight or choice and everything to do with the structural bracing.! . . . Which IMO at this size and proportions it's lacking.!

    I agree 110% regards building the machine to do an intended job. . BUT . . in this case while YES it will fullfill the "Brief" it could have been so much better for so little more.!! . . Or better put you spoilt the broth to save a pinch more salt.!!

    Given the full picture regards componets then with a bit more bracing (Esp the BED) and a REAL Z Axis then this machine could handle most jobs and materials upto Aluminium with good usable DOC.! . . .As it is now it will always be lacking.!!

    My view and feelings regards machines built in this manner with these materials is that they are built purely with ease of build to extract maximum profit using off the shelf products. This often leads to comprimise, whether that be finacial or strength, they generaly lack in one or the other.!

    IMO given the fact that at 3860(taking away the 600 for the enclosure) and the very fact that building this machine how you do requires very little equipment other than a decent drill press and could be built in just a few days then you are still making very good profit. Certainly enough to give a better Z axis using at least supported round rails and couple more piece's of profile for the bed.!!. . . . This would make the machine capable of so much more.!!

    I wish you every success and please don't take my comments as a personal attack,.they are observations and MY OPINOINS gained from my experience building machines for my self and others and which I was invited to give (And feel should be said for the sake of others). I fully understand the need for profit being in business 0ver 25 years my self but some times saving that "Pinch of salt" really does spoil the soup IMO..!!!


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ​it seems my posts are not being listed on the forum Hmm?

    i did post several replies but they went to the moderators & must have to wait , in the mean time i do not underestimate your knowledge but would like to see the pictures of the machines you designed & built ,your comment regarding you can build this machine with a drill press in a few days is highlighted & to be commended but i personally would not like to receive a CNC router used for precision machining that i payed good money for made with a drill press let alone made in a few days , this would be the difference between us we do this for a living & intimately know each component & there limitations that comes with the experience gained from designing & testing machines across multiple platforms to weed out all the bugs any CNC design must go through countless revisions to fine tune the design ,first & foremost we are a engineering company with a manufacturing facility that houses CNC mills , manual bridgeport mills & large colchester lathes & this is just in the tool room used for our jigs ,we know the tensile strength of each beam & have run hundreds of tests with the various sizes over the years so we can recognise the material structural limits ,the support you speak of are directly proportionate the the integrity of the beam used & as you use extrusion you will also know there are various suppliers & one suppliers heavy grade is an other's light grade we have tried & tested extrusion from 7 of the UK suppliers & know our extrusion comes from Germany i do fear you may be thinking it is a lighter grade than it actually is.

    Another point is the heiz models these use unsupported rails on all axis even at 1400mm long they also have no where near the support ours have & yet they have a great pedigree & reputation we have only got to this point by endless testing of each machine in this range & please remember we offered this customer the hiwin supported rail upgrade we can only go with the customers decision & budget there is nothing currently in this price range for this size of machine & the price is very competitive also one does have to question your motives behind this by putting down the machine whilst also trying to make a sale on this thread by supplying one of your own CNC routers to another user this speaks volumes
    i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply
    pictures of your work would be appreciated for us all to see your machine
    best wishes

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    To be honest you would be hard pressed to make one for this total amount even if you threw your labour in at zero
    Just as an exercise to satisfy my curiosity I set about working the cost of building this machine complete with VFD etc and think it could be made for around 1K. Thou that would be with no labour involved plus as usual there'll be something I've over looked.!!

    THOU. . . Must say It be a far better, stronger machine because I've priced for profile on gantry and supported rails all round and better quality ballscrew supports FK/FF also the spindle would be 1.5KW.

    Like I say Just an Exercise so don't anyone get excited I'm not offering. .:nope: If you have the time then it's just about do-able.! . . . . If you want Profit then forget it.

  3. #63
    [QUOTE=Strike CNC;27894]
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    also one does have to question your motives behind this by putting down the machine whilst also trying to make a sale on this thread by supplying one of your own CNC routers to another user this speaks volumes
    i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply
    pictures of your work would be appreciated for us all to see your machine
    best wishes
    Absolutly no ulterior motive what so ever my friend, I'm strictly hobby use only with plenty of experience. To be honest most of what I do is make parts for other hobby users or help them with there builds/problems/info. Often I do this free of charge or for very little.

    Yes I've built full machines small and large, very large in one case but to be honest this is my passion not my living and don't feel the need produce evidence to you or anyone. Basicly If they don't think I know what I'm talking about then don't ask me to help, either way I don't give a shit.!!

    Regards trying to make a sale on the forum if you look again you'll see John S asked me not the other way round.! Also if you look even closer you'll find it was John's sweet way of having a little DIG at me to shut the f'%k-up. . . . BUT Me being ME and FIK as a plank it went way over my head.!!! . . . . . Plus I know the Old Bastard too well. (I'm not being offensive to John, anyone who knows him will see the funny side, including John)


    The other thing I do lots of is help folks sort out poorly designed or so called "Professional built" machines and as such I see all kinds of build quality or lack of it in some case's.! . . . Your's I've yet to see but I'm sure I will sooner or later.!!

    Can I suggest that instead of taking my comments as a personal attack with ulterior motive's you take them as critique thru exeperienced eyes and at very least look at what's been said.! . . . Hiding behind the "User request" hisn't good eneough IMO. It's your job to assist and if need be refuse to lower or comprimise the machines integrity by using inferior products or design.!!

    After all this is a Public forum and while as usual I'm the first to open my BIG mouth on what negatives I see, I certainly wouldn't be the only one seeing this or thinking this and there would sooner or later be another saying it.? Probably the disgruntled users seeking advice but still would be said.
    Again IMO it would be better to acknowledge and embrace critique then address any valid points and I do feel all the points I mentioned, mainly weak Z axis and Bed frame, after finding the full spec are perfectly valid given the price and the little extra cost to make right.!!. . . . . . Yes Maybe the comment about drill press and 2 days was a bit flippant.!! . . . It may take 3-4 days.!!!!!

    Robin said it perfectly " The proof will be in the eating" so well see what cook thinks and I'll say no more other than Good luck and I wish you well in business. :tup:

  4. #64
    [QUOTE=JAZZCNC;27904][QUOTE=Strike CNC;27894]

    Absolutely no ulterior motive what so ever my friend, I'm strictly hobby use only with plenty of experience. To be honest most of what I do is make parts for other hobby users or help them with there builds/problems/info. Often I do this free of charge or for very little.


    Thanks for the comments
    but we are not hiding behind the customers design brief & you agreed it was met ,we also have a range of upgrades available including spindles,gantry's, supported & hiwin rails as well as various other components but this is ultimately down to the customer & there budget if the upgrade or not we cannot give away free upgrades to assit in the customer receiving a better quality machine we are a business & this is not the way upgrades work or a business should be run & i think this is where the problem lies you are looking at this from your point of view as a hobby user & your quote for the small 6040 machine demonstrates this you quoted 1000.00 for parts alone not including labour costs this is 1/4 the size of the enclosed CNC & our CNC also has the 1850mmx1750x1800 enclosure & base , we have to factor in a whole lot more for our costs even so 4460.00 for a fully enclosed CNC router with a foot print of 1850x1750x1800 is extremely good this customer even admitted they have been looking for a machine for 6 months & could not even find anything near that size with there budget & they received a large base & enclosure with 4mm lexan for good measure we even put them in another set of double doors for free as well as free delivery at a cost of 290.00 all in all this customer received a bargain

    RE the bed the customer confirmed to me last night the bed has no flex with just the base once the place there spoil board on the bed it will be 35mm

    again Re the Z axis i have already said we offered the customer the supported rail upgrade but he only went for this on one axis if there budget will not allow the upgrade this in not our fault again this machine met the customers design spec & budget upgrades are not free im afraid from any company as the many user will know

    it is very easy to discriminate & pic work by just looking at pictures of a unfinished machine but we would not post pictures of a half built machine they were sent to the customer as he wished to have a update on the progress of his machine , a customer should never see a uncompleted machine but this one was insistent as i guess he was excited
    you were making judgements on a unfinished machine again it would be nice if i could see pictures of your several machines as you do give out allot of valid advice it would be nice to see some of your own work as you know you only learn from expirence so your machines should be pretty good
    all the best

  5. #65
    Going slightly off at a tangent the Heiz machines seem to have a following as they can provide from stock, no waiting, have a flashy web site and loads and loads of buzz words. Anyone with half an engineering brain can see the short comings thay have but they have a market.
    Would I buy one ? no I'd sooner buy a Chinese one and make the necessary mods to it and still be quids in.

    However this forum isn't really the place to bash other peoples work. There is a fine line between bashing and useful criticism.

    I can see the OP going for the Strike machine and his reasoning behind it. He has a product to make which I presume he understands. His job is not to spend time making a machine when he has a product to produce. In this case it looks like he's worked with Strike and they have come up with the goods and given the changes, on time.

    That in itself is commendable today, says John who has just opened yet another Paypal dispute, this time for 20 3" pipe fittings they can't supply even though they can take the money !!
    John S -

  6. #66
    That in itself is commendable today, says John who has just opened yet another Paypal dispute, this time for 20 3" pipe fittings they can't supply even though they can take the money !![/QUOTE]

    x20 3" pipe sounds intersting what project did you have you in mind for this & at least you have paypal to fall back on thats at least a positive

  7. #67
    Nothing to do with CNC.
    just some conversion flanges from 3" gas thread to 5" square for some replacement pumps for ???/
    John S -

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Strike CNC View Post
    i do not wish to cause offence only the chance to reply
    It's not easy when someone attacks your product on a web forum, I used to get a lot of that.

    You can't tell them to go forth and multiply so you have to apply the old maxim, "Don't feed the Trolls".

    Jazz isn't actually a troll, he's quite cuddly once you get to know him. I think he's just forgotten to take his meds :naughty:

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hewitt View Post
    I think he's just forgotten to take his meds :naughty:
    Certainly could have used some Meds today Robin. .

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Certainly could have used some Meds today Robin. .
    I know the feeling but I avoid meds, I've seen too many people rot their brains. Thanks for not being cross with me

    Is this particular pudding over egged, under egged or just so? We won't know until he switches it on.

    Do we have any cutting specs? What kind of tolerances and feed rates are we looking for?

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