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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenson View Post
    A lot of the DIY machines on here are built with Chinese ballscews, ballnut and linear bearings. Do you have evidence the ones in the 6040 are inferior? The rest of the structure is metal and screws, probably machined on very good industrial kit.

    I'm not saying the 6040 is a perfect machine but I think you are going way over the top with your comments in the context of a small run machine for wood parts or light aluminium. Yes DIY will give better results, but only if you are willing and able.
    Ok got to reply to this then that's it from me.!!

    Again you don't get it.!! . . . . It's the details that make the BIG difference and I do have the experience to see it's short comings.
    Just looking at the pictures tells me everything I need to know but if with your vast experience your so cock sure it's "all that" then go out and buy one, use it in a business type of enviroment (which Andy wants to try to establish) and prove me wrong.! . . . My shoulders are big enough and I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong.!!! . . . ~Go for it.:dance:

  2. #42
    It's a common misconception peope seem to have that steel bar / RSJ etc, hardened or otherwise "doesn't bend". People see bridges and buildings made from the sort of size steel that we sometimes see on CNC router frames and assume that if it can hold up a bridge it will hold a cutter steady. The critical difference is the acceptable magnitude of deflection is markedly different in these circumstances. For any CNC router worth owning 0.05mm (perhaps less) of deflection is likely to be disastrous, but in a bridge a few millimeters of deflection won't be noticed. For CNC machining the permissible bending thresholds are very small, hence even though the forces are generally not that great you still need a very rigid structure, which includes the rails. You're not going to actually see the deflection in an unsupported rail until you put a dial indicator on it as the deflection will be small, but you only need a very small amount to make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenson View Post
    A lot of the DIY machines on here are built with Chinese ballscews, ballnut and linear bearings. Do you have evidence the ones in the 6040 are inferior? The rest of the structure is metal and screws, probably machined on very good industrial kit.
    I doubt there's anything wrong with the ballscrews and I'm sure that's not what Jazz is suggesting. The main problem with the 6040 is it uses unsupported rails on Y and Z. There's a huge overhang on the Z-axis, relying on the spindle for strength, very small spacing between the linear bearings on all the axis', combined with only one ballscrew on the X-axis, sub-optimal direct drive not timing belts, bed is proabably weak towards the center, tiny ER11 collet, etc etc ... all things that are easy to do better yourself. You only really need to read a couple of the build logs on this forum to learn most of the things required to make a good machine as Jazz and I mention the same weaknesses and how to solve them every single time.

    I'm also happy to talk to anyone about how to design/build a machine. I regularly talk to several people on the forum via Skype/wlm/email ...

    Jazz is right about people being to greedy when it comes to selling machines in the UK. The capitalise on the ignorance of the customer by selling machines which are barely adequate and as a result overpriced. I'd happily be making good CNC routers, but as I'm currently at University my time is somewhat limited. Having said that I will be making a CNC Router, primarily for cutting aluminium and steel, in partnership with a friend from school over the next couple of weeks. I will post a build log when its done to demonstrate what can be achieved if you're prepared to do some background reading and think for yourself.

  3. #43
    I guess a lot of it comes down to what you want to do with it.

    me? I just need a machine to knock out a PCB inshort order.....also mill the odd bit of acrylic - very modest requirement.

    I paid 430 for the frame ...it has already paid for itself in time saved (vs my old DIY nasty), money generated (if I'd gone the DIY route, I'd still be obsessing whether to spec shielded motor cable or not!)....and freeing me up to crack on with expanding my fledgling product range.

    Will the machine last? From what I can see yes (I can certainly see me getting a couple of years out of it...at which point I no longer care) ...but like I say, I'm hardly pushing the envelope.

    So I think this all need to be put in the context of what the purchasers intentions are.

    but hey, Jazz, if you're saying that you can build a much better one for the same Chinese 6040 cost (1200) ...then when I do go for a larger machine I'll be beating a path to your door! :-)
    Last edited by HankMcSpank; 30-03-2012 at 07:27 PM.

  4. #44
    Jazz, I'm willing to DIY with the help of kind people like yourself, so I don't need to buy one.

    I'm not sure it's 'all that', hence I don't need experience at all to be uncertain ;)

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by HankMcSpank View Post
    but hey, Jazz, if you're saying that you can build a much better one for the same Chinese 6040 cost (1200) ...then when I do go for a larger machine I'll be beating a path to your door! :-)
    Yes but only if you live in Scotland because it give me an excuse for a batterd Mars bar. .!!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Yes but only if you live in Scotland because it give me an excuse for a batterd Mars bar. .!!
    Jazz, you only had to ask! Not had one myself, But I could certainly send you one lol ;-) The fried pizza is also commonplace in the Chippies here. I'm not actually indigenous to Scotland.. I'm a soft southern 'lardee dah' shandy drinker. Moved here three years ago - so much cheaper to buy a house. I do miss sunlight though ;-)

    You guys are fantastic and It's great to see the pioneers of the great British shed go from strength to strength. It's definitely something that I can see you guys get rightly passionate about.

    I would really like to thank you all for your insights into the pros and cons of self build over cheap imports and not so cheap UK made efforts. Jazz and Jonathan thankyou for your kind words and offers of help, it's fantastic to see this kind of courtesy and friendship offered to others with similar interests. The only thing I regret slightly is that - had I known of this hobby years ago it's something I know that I would love to have done with my Dad, build a real machine. He's a real old school guy who loves his engineering and has "pottered" with various things for years. The only thing that stops me now is he is not well and disabled after a stroke and in his mid 70s now. Plus still living on the south coast so we don't see him as much as we would like. Sorry to digress guys!!

    Anyway I've been doing alot of thinking on this matter, I think that despite all the great advice I'm going to go for the Chinese machine -for now.

    My reasoning is:

    I hate to say this, but for the easy life in my marriage. My wife is a 'quick- let's take the easy option and just buy a replacement' type What I mean by this is should the washer dryer break down (like it did 3 months ago..)She was adamant at buying a new one especially as the old one was 3 years old. I persevered and insisted I would fault find and buy the part myself. I diagnosed it and replaced the dryer element. Cost me 30 as opposed to 400 for a new one. Everything has become disposable. I've always been make do and mend etc. That's because my father in law is useless and could never change a fuse in a plug. I think thats the way her family are. Somethings too much bother or an effort? Get someone in!

    Having said this there is a balance to be struck, I have tons of projects not getting finished because of real life, i.e lack of funds, kids, other things always crop up. Car needs fixing for MOT etc.

    I don't have the time for a new project from scratch and I'm not sure I could face the uphill battle and grind of having to constantly explain to the wife Why I need to buy this component and WHY so much of my time is being taken up by this 'latest scheme etc". (Sounds really bad when I read this back to myself!! Perhaps it won't be so long till I'm divorced and wandering around in my pants building projects all day..) Doesn't sound that bad lol

    Even if I spend 1200 I imagine that after a year of so and it's still working it could be sold to another beginner for 600 or so. So that is limiting losses on the down side.
    Plus more importantly having a machine to actually play with, I can learn to discover "just what it is I should be making, what and who my target audience are" etc. This will give me a greater insight into what I need for my next machine. i,e I could then self build something with exactly the RIGHT elements for what I make and what is selling and profitable.

    I would like to build my own machine i time, but without the time at the moment and without existing customers or having yet 'found' my own niche in a market which I'm not quite sure of yet.

    I've got to get set up as quickly as possible with as little grief from my wife as is humanly possible. Once I can prove my work and the fact I can make money with this project I'm sure that will sweeten the prospect of me actually making my own dream machine whilst having the money coming in to support the project. I really need an 'off the peg' fix to keep up the impetus.

    Another of my ongoing projects is a transit van camper conversion I'm doing, it's hard enough to keep up with getting that done. So you can see that I'm a busy boy.

    I've certainly found a great site here, with some good guys who I look forward to 'bending your ears' for help and advice with my up and coming endeavours I'm just glad it only costs fried mars bars. I could maybe stretch to fried "curly wurlies" and YES! they do batter them too!

    Thanks guys

    Andy

  7. #47
    Bloody hell thats 3 out of 3 that I've had contact with in Scotland and none of you are scotish, are there any Scots left.?? . . . . The first was Micheal and I thought " If I have any trouble helping it will be understanding the lingo" and it's was.??? . . . Couldn't believe my ears when this American Accent dribbled down the phone. . :heehee:

    Sorry would be a NO BRAINER she'd GO replaced with "Fit bit" on the side and shit load of materials and components .!! . . . DIVORCE. . Best thing that ever happened to me. .:dance: (Except she screw'd me for all my money and half my business, But hey it's true money's not everything and I'm far far happier without her.!!)

    Now days if Girlfriend gives me grief I just say "Adios" and go home to my Nag free zone untill she comes to her sense's.!! . . or . . . sobers up. :rofl:

    Good luck with your endevours and I'll just have to wait untill I go upto Micheals or maybe Bruce's for my next Fried mars bar fix.!!

  8. #48
    Jazz the latest fry up in Edinburgh is.........................................fried butter (need a throwing up smiley).

    I think that Andy is right. If you think it through and your needs are met by the Chinese m/c then go for it. If you want to come over to the sunny side of Scotland Michael and I would be delighted to see you.

    bruce
    The more I know, I know, I know the less. (John Owen)

  9. #49
    Please let us know how the machine works out. I think you are the first here to buy one!You might want to plan putting some vacuum extraction on it, to reduce the mess flying everywhere. Here is a quick shot of hat I did with mine.I did plan to make a dust / sound box for the machine but I'm now building a whole new machine, lol!

    (Click for Video)

    Last edited by Tenson; 02-04-2012 at 02:52 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Bloody hell thats 3 out of 3 that I've had contact with in Scotland and none of you are scotish, are there any Scots left.?? . . . . The first was Micheal and I thought " If I have any trouble helping it will be understanding the lingo" and it's was.??? . . . Couldn't believe my ears when this American Accent dribbled down the phone. . :heehee:

    Sorry would be a NO BRAINER she'd GO replaced with "Fit bit" on the side and shit load of materials and components .!! . . . DIVORCE. . Best thing that ever happened to me. .:dance: (Except she screw'd me for all my money and half my business, But hey it's true money's not everything and I'm far far happier without her.!!)

    Now days if Girlfriend gives me grief I just say "Adios" and go home to my Nag free zone untill she comes to her sense's.!! . . or . . . sobers up. :rofl:

    Good luck with your endevours and I'll just have to wait untill I go upto Micheals or maybe Bruce's for my next Fried mars bar fix.!!
    Lol @ Jazz,

    Amen,I can understand you there Brother! I can see where you are coming from for sure. I must go back over my wifes "obedience training" and see where I went wrong ;-)

    She's a good un, just doesn't appreciate my hobbies/ or the need to have stuff cluttering up our front room etc. Although I'm fortunate we don't actually use our garage for

    the car anymore. That's my "man cave" for tools and projects now. Not to say that at some point I won't be building my own machine Jazz and you will be most certainly

    welcome.

    As for being are their any scots left in Scotland? lol well, I know a fair few were propping up the bars in my local way done south and good few years ago! Perhaps it's grass is always greener? Living up here is good. Generally well tolerated being English up here... But there are certain pubs I avoid and 'sometimes' it's best not to speak too loudly. There are some people where I live that have never and will never visit the next town along (along 5 miles away) So view anyone with a slightly different accent as 'alien'.
    Just waiting for a spot of global warming and this place should be lovely.

    Quote Originally Posted by motoxy View Post
    Jazz the latest fry up in Edinburgh is.........................................fried butter (need a throwing up smiley).

    I think that Andy is right. If you think it through and your needs are met by the Chinese m/c then go for it. If you want to come over to the sunny side of Scotland Michael and I would be delighted to see you.

    bruce
    Thanks Bruce, I will definitely take you and Michael up on your offer! It will probably be when I've done something stupid ;-) HEELLP! lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenson View Post
    Please let us know how the machine works out. I think you are the first here to buy one!You might want to plan putting some vacuum extraction on it, to reduce the mess flying everywhere. Here is a quick shot of hat I did with mine.I did plan to make a dust / sound box for the machine but I'm now building a whole new machine, lol!

    (Click for Video)

    Hi Tenson,

    Thanks for posting up the vid, it looks like a good idea and I will definitely make something up to clear up the debris. I will post up some pics and vids once I have brought one so that it will help any others looking to buy.. or NOT to buy!

    Thanks guys

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