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  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Build one.

    This one is only 1,5Kw, 2HP and ER32 but everything is adaptable.

    Attachment 6072
    Well the speed is there now ive just got to add ATC and half its size...LOL
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Build one.

    This one is only 1,5Kw, 2HP and ER32 but everything is adaptable.
    Can't be arsed with making spindles. The hole point of a spindle is accurecy and I feel that without precision grinding equipment, balancing and correct hardening it's not possible to do and give required accurecy and longevity.! . . It's certainly beyond my equipment.

    Add real ATC abilty with industry standard tapers for easily available off the shelf tool holders and it goes to another level.

    IMO MT3 hisn't a valid option for ATC due to fact it's a bastard to release and the taper can't handle high rpm, and then there's the toolholders. They will all need to be custom made then balanced for high RPM all very time consuming requiring high precision machines to do it correctly. Same goes for R8.!!
    The only way to realisticly do ATC with these tapers is like the Tormach system where just one large collet is permanently in the spindle and custom tool holders made and has can be seen with Tormach they can't achieve high RPM due to balance issues. So to me who idealy wants 15K rpm area thats a non starter.

    Like I said earlier in the thread I belive it would be very easy to throw lots of money at building one then still end up with a less than ideal result.? Not a route I'd like or want to take when I know for sure I can have full ATC with industry tapers, thru coolant etc for just less than a grand.!! . . . YES 1000 is lot of money but in the real spindle world it's peanuts.!!!!

    This is my Ideal spindle
    ATC
    20K RPM
    BT40 1st choice, BT30 2nd choice both ball grippers.
    5KW if inc motor 50-20K rpm
    thru coolant
    encoder option (I want to ridged Tap)

    Yes I know want a lot but that would make me a happy chappie if could happen for 1500 with motor or sub 1000 without.? Honestly dont think it's possible for less than 2K but can live in hope.!!

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Can't be arsed with making spindles. The hole point of a spindle is accurecy and I feel that without precision grinding equipment, balancing and correct hardening it's not possible to do and give required accurecy and longevity.! . . It's certainly beyond my equipment.

    Add real ATC abilty with industry standard tapers for easily available off the shelf tool holders and it goes to another level.

    IMO MT3 hisn't a valid option for ATC due to fact it's a bastard to release and the taper can't handle high rpm, and then there's the toolholders. They will all need to be custom made then balanced for high RPM all very time consuming requiring high precision machines to do it correctly. Same goes for R8.!!
    The only way to realisticly do ATC with these tapers is like the Tormach system where just one large collet is permanently in the spindle and custom tool holders made and has can be seen with Tormach they can't achieve high RPM due to balance issues. So to me who idealy wants 15K rpm area thats a non starter.

    Like I said earlier in the thread I belive it would be very easy to throw lots of money at building one then still end up with a less than ideal result.? Not a route I'd like or want to take when I know for sure I can have full ATC with industry tapers, thru coolant etc for just less than a grand.!! . . . YES 1000 is lot of money but in the real spindle world it's peanuts.!!!!

    This is my Ideal spindle
    ATC
    20K RPM
    BT40 1st choice, BT30 2nd choice both ball grippers.
    5KW if inc motor 50-20K rpm
    thru coolant
    encoder option (I want to ridged Tap)

    Yes I know want a lot but that would make me a happy chappie if could happen for 1500 with motor or sub 1000 without.? Honestly dont think it's possible for less than 2K but can live in hope.!!
    Even at the lower spec i require all of the above statement still holds true for me also...
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  4. #74
    Jazz do you mind if i ask why you need such high spindle speed?
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  5. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardoco View Post
    Jazz do you mind if i ask why you need such high spindle speed?
    Mainly because I do alot with softer materials like aluminium, brass using smaller diameter cutters (<6mm) and find 12-15K the best speed range regards feed rates, finish etc. Also when 3D finishing using really small multiflute ballnose cutters (<2mm) then even 20K rpm is on the edge of too slow. Same goes for V carving, engraving.!!
    On the flipside I want sub 1000rpm for large fly cutters, boreing, drilling etc and full control for tapping.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Like I said earlier in the thread I belive it would be very easy to throw lots of money at building one then still end up with a less than ideal result.? Not a route I'd like or want to take when I know for sure I can have full ATC with industry tapers, thru coolant etc for just less than a grand.!! . . . YES 1000 is lot of money but in the real spindle world it's peanuts.!!!!

    This is my Ideal spindle
    ATC
    20K RPM
    BT40 1st choice, BT30 2nd choice both ball grippers.
    5KW if inc motor 50-20K rpm
    thru coolant
    encoder option (I want to ridged Tap)

    Yes I know want a lot but that would make me a happy chappie if could happen for 1500 with motor or sub 1000 without.? Honestly dont think it's possible for less than 2K but can live in hope.!!
    You are only one step away from an off the shelf VMC or router.
    Once you have all this the next failing is going to be the build of the existing machine.
    Who's existing machine can carry a BT40 spindle with 5Kw motor ? The high frequency spindles can't hack the whole range as below 8K they are useless on torque unless you do like the big boys and design for minimum speed.

    That they do is say to themselves I need 1K minimum speed but at 1K they only have say 10% of torque available of the motor so they up the Kw of the motor just so minimum speed is covered.
    Look at some of the modern 5 axis machines with 30Kw spindles, why do you need 30Kw when you never rum greater than 20mm cutters ?
    It's only so there is torque available at lower speeds. Even a large motor and inverter is peanuts compared to designing and building a gearbox that can run at 20,000 rpm.

    My nephews Biesse router has all you need except thu coolant and there is no way that head will fit on any of the machines I have seen on this site.
    If you really need all this then forget the 1500 spindle with motor and buy a S/H Biesse
    John S -

  7. #77
    i2i's Avatar
    Lives in Cardiff, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 23-12-2016 Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 693. Received thanks 30 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    a gearbox to cope with 20k, i'll give Lewis or Jensen a ring i'm sure they'll have one spare.

  8. #78
    i2i's Avatar
    Lives in Cardiff, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 23-12-2016 Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 693. Received thanks 30 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    I thought of making a spindle, but the cost of these spindles makes it pointless.

    My needs are for a milling machine rather than a router, so i have no probs on the weight or size. In fact this is replacing a bridgeport type head on a Denford Quatro so i have plenty of room.

    http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3730

    Ricardoco, if you fancy one i have two..

  9. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by i2i View Post
    I thought of making a spindle, but the cost of these spindles makes it pointless.

    My needs are for a milling machine rather than a router, so i have no probs on the weight or size. In fact this is replacing a bridgeport type head on a Denford Quatro so i have plenty of room.

    http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=3730

    Ricardoco, if you fancy one i have two..
    OMG what are you doing to me.... Im not gonna be able to get that out of my head now.. cheers for that.. they look gorgeous....
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  10. #80
    i2i's Avatar
    Lives in Cardiff, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 23-12-2016 Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 693. Received thanks 30 times, giving thanks to others 0 times.
    it'll end up being a single phase VMC, with 600 x 300 x 500 axis movement (x y z).

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