Thread: Wood Router

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  1. #1
    Hi all
    Ive just started a router build to see how much cash i can waste in the process . So I'm a CNC machinist by trade and converted my BF25 some time ago to CNC with Zap SY60STH88-3008B steppers and Gecko G540. I make airguns for fun and now want a router to make gun stocks from my 3D designs.
    So Ive designed a router to fit the only space left in my garage , this is as big as i can fit ! , which has a cutting area of 830x530x90mm.

    The base of the router is made out of 45x90mm extrusion with Y axis being 45x45mm bolted to the back of 20mm tool plate. Ive already machined the 20mm alloy tool plate for the sides of the gantry and the back plate for the Y axis which is wasted away to remove weight.
    I'm fitting 20mm Linear guides to all axis which are being bashed and dropped to precision in the post on there way from China. The ballscrews are 1605 which have been sitting around for to long so will be put to use. The ballscrews will be fitted with Angular contact bearings on the driving end and a free floating bearing at the other.

    The plan is to order the 60BYGH401-03 steppers from CNC4you which IL then fit to my mill and swap the Zap steppers over to the router which then have to be wired up with LONG cables ( about 20m needed ) to the PC on the other side of the garage. This is so i can run it from my PC , Mach 3 and G540 to keep the price down.


    So this is where i need abit of help as i have little experience of machining wood. I'm running X and Y axis (maybe Z ) with pulleys and belts as i need to keep the machine within the foot print. Ive got to keep the 1605 screws and wonder which pulley setup would give me best performance for 3D milling , so i would appreciate some ideas






    So some pretty pics ...as we all like them ... don't we ! and IL be back with some pics one Ive fixed the 7000 kitchen the F*** wit builder we employed completely cocked up on as the GF has to be sorted first ....... damit .
    L8r

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Buba b View Post


    So this is where i need abit of help as i have little experience of machining wood. I'm running X and Y axis (maybe Z ) with pulleys and belts as i need to keep the machine within the foot print. Ive got to keep the 1605 screws and wonder which pulley setup would give me best performance for 3D milling , so i would appreciate some ideas
    Well I run 2005 using 1:2 on X & Y direct drive 1204 on Z axis and I'm happy with it in all cutting conditions.
    I run 3Nm 34's with 76V on 80V 203v's maxing out around 11M/min but I don't run it at these speeds, I keep it to 7M/min for stabilty against missed steps etc plus it allows me to have higher Accelleration which you need for 3Dwork and deliberatly do it for this reason.
    You have 23's on smaller dia screws so should get higher speeds.? . . BUT . . personally I think you'll be slightly restricted by the G540 and it's 50V max, which realisticly means 45-6V.!
    To get best from the 3Nm 3008B they work much better at 65-70V and seen has it's mainly wood use then speed helps here.
    Yes you can gear it for speed but higher the ratio less the torque and that gantry will be heavy needing good amount of torque to control the high inertia from Accelleration and De-accellerations required for 3D machining so bigger drives would certainly help and be worth the extra outlay IMO.

    Ratio 1:2 is where I would start. I would definately use belts on Z axis even if you don't use a ratio, it's more flexable and helps eliminate resonance.

    Edit: If you run Mach3 then here's what I do regards tuning and belt drive.?
    I setup different tuning profiles for different types of work, IE 3D work I tune the motors for lower velocity but higher Accelleration then save it has 3D which I then load when doing that kind of job.
    I basicly have 8 profiles.!! 4 set for 1:2 ratio 4 identical 1:1 Ratios. These tuning profiles are basicly Aluminium, Wood, 3D and 1 imperial setp same has aluminium for when using imperial G-code.
    Initially it takes a bit of time setting up but wounce done thats it and it's very quick switching from one type of work to another with optimum tuning setup.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 27-05-2012 at 04:36 PM.

  3. #3
    Make sure the gantry doesn't hit the Y Axsi motor :)

    if you fitted the motor the other way you'd get an extra few cm's of cutting area :)

  4. #4
    Just spotted something with Z axis.?

    I you take the motor off the front plate and position it on the Y axis then connect to Z screw with belts you get far better Accelleration from the Z axis. You also don't need long screw and you get the other bennafits of belts I mentioned earlier.

    My setup used the way you have it drawn but I now build all machines using the system described above and can tell 100% it's a much better setup.

    Edit: Like these pics. Obviously done to suit your machine with round rail, which actually makes it easier.!
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    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 27-05-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  5. #5
    Trust me :) the X axis dosnt hit the motor ( always thought the longest axis was the X ? .... theres a fight waiting to happen LoL ) the belts long enough to run under the gantry.
    I ve seen your Z axis Jazz and did draw it up like yours but left it as it was made out of more parts and the pulleys made the router plate hang further from the gantry. I think il have to give in and sort the belt drive on the Z axis , i did think i was heading this way , with the 1:2 ratio.

    Im pretty much fixed with the G540 at the moment which drives my mill at 150imp on rapids but as you say the gantry is carrying alot more weight which has to be controled when accellerating and de-accellerating while cutting.
    So the next question is would you remove more material by wasting away or would you keep the mass of the side plates ... both has benifits , but i guess a lighter ganrty is the way to go
    L8r

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Buba b View Post
    So the next question is would you remove more material by wasting away or would you keep the mass of the side plates ... both has benifits , but i guess a lighter ganrty is the way to go
    L8r
    Incorrect priorities.
    A heavy gantry (and machine in general) is good since you want to have as much strength as possible. Making cutouts, including the ones you have already drawn, just wastes strength and money. Rigidity is far more important than feedrate. If you're reducing the mass to improve the feedrate you're going about it the wrong way - you should select the motors and drivers to get the feedrate you require which, as Jazz said, means buying 70-80V drivers such as the M752. Bear in mind the stepper motor output torque at high speed is roughly proportional to the applied voltage, so going from 45V to 75V is a 67% gain in torque where it matters.
    Old router build log here. New router build log here. Lathe build log here.
    Electric motorbike project here.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Incorrect priorities.
    A heavy gantry (and machine in general) is good since you want to have as much strength as possible. Making cutouts, including the ones you have already drawn, just wastes strength and money. Rigidity is far more important than feedrate. If you're reducing the mass to improve the feedrate you're going about it the wrong way - you should select the motors and drivers to get the feedrate you require which, as Jazz said, means buying 70-80V drivers such as the M752. Bear in mind the stepper motor output torque at high speed is roughly proportional to the applied voltage, so going from 45V to 75V is a 67% gain in torque where it matters.
    Yep has Jonathan knows I agree with him 100% . . .Don't cut mass for speed. I'd do without the speed before ridgity every time.! To be honest Ridgity can make up for the lack of high feed by allowing deeper DOC.

    Sell The G540 get the bigger drives you won't regret it and you'll be amazed what them motors can do on 70V.!!

    I'm an X Axis is long Axis believer has well and anyone who says other wise is a numbnut . .Lol

  8. #8
    Yeh i agree with both of you but at the end of the day i need to get this machine working on the G540. Replacing the Gecko with the PM752 is the way to go for both machines but the cost is adding up for just the build of this hobby machine let alone replacing the drives. Had a quick look on the Evilbay and it would still look like an extra 280 ( not including steppers ) to get this setup .So im just going to have to run the Gecko at slow speed .... im in no rush , its a hobby until the cash surfaces.

    The spend so far looks like this

    Extrusion 250
    Tool plate 180
    Linear Rails 230
    Bolts / fixings 52
    Steppers 120
    Cables 50 = 882 ..... ouch even i didnt think i had spent that much !....... and who said golf was expensive !

    L8r ive got a kitchen to fix !

  9. #9
    Sorry to sound negative but do you realise that using the G540 with those motors your not actually getting 3Nm holding torque.? The G540 is limited to 3.5A and those motors are 4.2A so you'll have a proportional loss of torque.!! . . basicly you'll only have 83% motors rated torque so the potential issues could be worse.!!

    Not trying to put a downer on the build and fully understand the need to keep funds under control just want to high-light potential areas for disapointment when finished.
    Unfortunatly I see far too much Miss-match motor-drive-PSU combo's and one of the things I hate when speaking to new users is telling them they have bought mis-matched stuff.

    I say bo@#*cks to the kitchen sell the GF buy some big drives. .

  10. #10
    Well i knew everyone would jump on the G540 despite me say in the first post " thats the way it is ". It never mattered runing at reduced torque on the BF25 mill , you can only cut so fast on these bench mills before the lack of mass starts to show on the finish.
    Just have to see if the bonus pays out at work too see if i can change the Gecko , shame Zap dont do a deal without those steppers as im set on CNC4you,s and Evilbay dont show much with the M752 either !.

    I say bo@#*cks to the kitchen sell the GF buy some big drives
    Sell the GF ..... hmmm ...... now your got something there ! , but when you consider that i did a 16 hour day yesterday and still had to make my own pack lunch at 11 o,clock for work as she played on Facebook .... i dont think il get enough for the drives

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