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  1. #1
    Getting less of a newbie, now have less cash and serial #`s that combined are worth more than the computer they are running on ;-)

    Help is there but sometimes its is as if its written in a different language, full of acronyms and numbers. Entry to ask questions seems sometimes set at knowing what some of the acronyms mean...

    CNC by it`s nature attracts people who didn`t intially want to learn a lot about bearing blocks and supported rails, they wanted something, a 3d manufacturing process, to turn a CAD model into a physical object. Learn fast that need to know more than anticipated to get very far.

    Because they`re an expensive project, there`s money to be made by the `we`ll make it easy for you` types, some of them probably learned their skills in somewhere like used car sales, it can be a world of bait and switch, see one product, get delivered something quite a lot different....

    Ryan Air style drip pricing, everything is extra over, that change of spindle is also a change of mount, connectors they`re extra see,`lets people specify the ones they need` etc.

    Combination of the 2, low ad price followed by the hard upsell on everything.

    Some of them are legitimate sales techniques but some depends on how well infomed the customer is and some is just downright deceit...

    Guess point is , it`s unfair to critcise victims of operations that by decline or design appear to have turned into the machine tools world equivalent of clip joints.

    Like used car salesman, conservatory sales droids and boiler room share rampers they can appear very convincing.

  2. #2
    Plug and play machines are needed, but we need more engineers making them. You need CNC to make CNC and you need to know what you are doing.

    Average bod arrives on the CNC scene, realises it is much cheaper to build-your-own so he designs a bare 3 axis CNC gantry assuming the wiring, switches, drivers and software can come later, how hard can it be? He then posts it on a forum expecting Wow's and adulation but instead gets told where he's gone wrong. He then fights his corner, tries to justify it, builds it anyway and comes back when he finds Mach 3 can't fix his mistakes.

    His big problem is there are a lot more like him and the old saying holds true, "You can't sell people what they need, you have to sell them what they want". The parts market is aimed at him and caters for all the mistakes he is about to make. Basically, the newbs control the market due to their buying power. It is very easy to buy what newbs want and tricky to buy what is actually needed.

    A newb machine is always made from aluminium extrusion, has a million rpm motor built in to the spindle, 6" of vertical where 2" would do, enormous stepper motors on all 3 axes, 2 on the X, not a diagonal brace in sight, round rails, and very little end support on the screws which are usually a joke.

  3. #3
    Very well said Robin and couldn't agree more.
    Right or wrong I often try to intervene Via PM when ever I see someone new(Hate the word "noobie") to CNC looking like they are taking the wrong path. Unfortunately can't help all of them and some just don't want help.!

    Can't tell you how many emails or PM's I get from people who don't EVER post but still are looking and wanting to building a machine. Often they will present me with a wish list of components or packages they have settled upon from weeks or month's of reading threads.
    They are mostly asking me to check it over for them and verify it's ok.? Would say 90% of them get it wrong. . . . Usual suspects Too low PSU, Too small drives, Too large drives, Too large motors, Wrong pitch, Wrong diameter, Unsupported rails, massive OTT profiled rail.! . . Then comes the frame starting with MDF, Too small extrusion, Too thin plate, Too little bracing, Too long Z axis, Too high gantry sides and almost exclusively Too much cutting expectations with Too little budget.!!

    So my advice to all New to CNC is just start a thread with your intentions and expectations and given a little time and patience then all the answers to build a successful machine will come.!! . . . Keep Stum and Go it alone and you'll more than likely get something wrong just costing more time and money in the long run.?

    If you plan to buy ready built then again post for opinions.! . .BUT . . like the Strike CNC thread shows don't t think for one minute just because WE say it looks OK it will be.? There are a lot of Conmen and fly by night rip-off merchants and unfortunately with CNC it's easy to blind the uninitiated with science and jargon and with a bit WOW factor cutting thrown in easy to get hooked.
    If you do take this route and spending several ŁK then I suggest the best course of action is to speak with other users of the actual machine and better still if possible take a experienced CNC person with you to view. Buying ready built is a mine field and unfortunately with CNC price doesn't always reflect the quality.!!

    DIY and you get exactly whats on the tin.? . . . . So long has you buy the right tins. . Lol

    Good luck.

  4. #4
    Perhaps the answer is a MYCNC router design which can be improved upon?

  5. #5
    Definitely NOT

    I have seen this route taken on many forums, there are some on Yahoo setup for designing the perfect lathe.

    They have been running 5+ years and still no design.
    There will never be a one size suits all.
    John S -

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Definitely NOT

    I have seen this route taken on many forums, there are some on Yahoo setup for designing the perfect lathe.

    They have been running 5+ years and still no design.
    There will never be a one size suits all.
    I can see it being an endless source of conflict between the "I know bestest" clan :)
    it would keep the buggers busy though

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Definitely NOT
    Blimey, have I just had an epiphany?

    I think a radical new design, not all based on standard parts, is exactly what is needed.

    If you think the home build has achieved perfection then we disagree.

  8. #8
    The beauty with the DIY route to me means Custom built, Custom to the users needs. Whether that be size, shape, speed, ability or what ever and so like John S says one design doesn't fit everybody. . . Never can, never will.
    Marks also correct it would turn into one big brawl.!! Bans would be getting dished out left right and centre, probably starting with me first.. Lol

    Some things are just the way they are and meant to be and it takes a certain amount of effort to gain the reward. If we can help guide new folks away from the rocks then that's all I think is needed.?

  9. #9
    One design is never suitable, so make it a parametric design. The process could be simplified into a set of logical decisions and a CAD program programmed to draw the machine based on code to represent these decisions. That way you just enter the general requirements (size, cutting material, price etc) and the program finds the solution if one exists within those parameters. This is not trivial to set up, but there are a few CAD programs that support parameter driven modelling, so I'm intending to try it. Clearly this method will never encompass everyone's needs, but it would be adequate for a lot of beginners to get an initial design, so long as it is made clear that it is a concept and not a final design.
    Old router build log here. New router build log here. Lathe build log here.
    Electric motorbike project here.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    That way you just enter the general requirements (size, cutting material, price etc) and the program finds the solution if one exists within those parameters.
    Ok at the risk of being called a bully I'll comment on this. The idea in concept is ok but who's components a will the Cad use.?
    To me this idea would work ok for a manufacturer or group of manufactures has it would allow them to construct the machine from there components but the DIY user needs to be flexible and buy what fits there pocket.
    To me it would need to be generic and this defeats the object of a Cad model.? Wouldn't it be better or easier to just have data base where they can enter there needs and it spits out recommended dimensions and component types sizes etc required to full-full there needs.?

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