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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by 2e0poz View Post
    This goes back to offering alternative methods like angle iron to make brackets with nuts and bolts? Decent saw and a pillar drill are the basic requirements for any build. Master the art of a centre punch and people should be able to build quite an accurate machine.
    Spot on 2eOpoz but in answer to Martin the investment of a £60 Arc welder is small compared to the alternatives of using So called easier materials like Alu profile. The extra in bolts, Angled steel and broken drill bits alone will cost nearly £60.
    The investment in time learning to weld is not that great and can be achieved in just a few hours. End of the day where only talking small short welds here, not much more than tack welding really and if someone can't learn to weld to that level in half a day then I severely doubt there chances of building any machine that requires precision drilling and patience.?

  2. #42
    I,m watching this post with great interest, and so far it is interesting. I,m building a machine, with guidance from a member on here (not sure if he wants naming). I,ve made a start to it, with a friend, but due to him being busy and me wanting a wee bit more in my machine, its down to guidance and myself. I now have the arc welder in place, (i,m not a welder), but cant wait to get going with it. I have an engineering background, so this doesnt phase me. I,ve went on the net for tutorials, but i,ve not learned anything new. My machine is being made out of 60x60x3mm steel, and i,ll put up a build, once my workshop is up and running.

  3. #43
    Jazz, As has been stated the idea would be to keep it simple, very rigid and straight forward to build. I am aware that cutting ally would up the anti, but it also vastly increases the scope of the machine, and would be useful for a "future" Monster build.

    How does vertical work? material hold, retaining cutout components etc., would it really save any space? - I suspect not. best keep it simple, which probably
    means conventional, although its good to think outside the box.

    IMHO the best choice for the frame would be hot-rolled section, either steel or ally (both of which can be of welded or bolted construction, although ally welding requires more skill). How does a braced channel section compare with box or RHS for strength and rigidity?, this may be easier to make stronger bolted connections - just thinking out loud.

    Yes it is difficult at this level, but that is probably why most available kits etc. don't quite cut the mustard. Also the idea behind this suggested project.

    This machine is intended to be an improvement on anything currently available so I don't think MDF comes into the equation. I am sure some people have achieved some success with MDF, but do not feel that it is suitable for this particular project.G

  4. #44
    Well done Alex, I look forward to hearing how you get on with the welding. If we do get a good design sorted, I will buy a welder and try to learn to weld.G.

  5. #45
    cheers geoffrey, the reason behind it, is that i want to build ONE machine that will stand the test of time. As i say i,ll get my build on line once i get the workshop completed.

  6. #46
    Jazz you've missed my point, lots of people view welding as a bit of a black art, those that do weld know it is not so but you won't convince many when your talking about constructing a machine where it's such an integral part of the build. Arc is probably the hardest to learn as well especially with a cheap machine where it is difficult to set current correctly.
    Not for one minute suggesting that it is not an option but if you are looking to cater to a wide audience then the downside has to be taken into account. Same with cutting ally, is the idea to produce an accurate machine that is better than what is currently available at a reasonable DIY price or a machine that is fit for business use which obviously ups the budget.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by GEOFFREY View Post
    Jazz, As has been stated the idea would be to keep it simple, very rigid and straight forward to build. I am aware that cutting ally would up the anti, but it also vastly increases the scope of the machine, and would be useful for a "future" Monster build.
    Geoff your falling into the "Bridge too far" trap.!! . . . Theres cutting Ali and cutting it correctly and I'm not guessing when I say it can't be done complete and working with spindle for under 1K and keep the simple to build Ideal. If this is really a design requirement then I'm out has I don't have time to waste on what I know can't be done.

    Vertical works just the same has horizontal regards work holding and part cutout.? All material needs clamping even when horizontal, esp the cut part. You wouldn't leave a cut part unfastened so it could be dragged back into the cutter so you'd clamp,stick,tab etc to hold in place which applies just same when vertical.
    The space saving is considerable when the machine size rise's but even a small machine could be large space saving when hung off a spare wall thats just holding up a roof.

    Look round your workshop and find a wall with enough space for slightly deeper than your typical Kitchen double top cupboard and thats your CNC 600x600 machine.
    Now look again and find a space on the floor or bench for 1sq meter with space in front or at side to stand and load/operate machine and see the difference.? . . . . What was you saying about no space saving.!!

    Oh and 90% the chips fall away so you can sell that great big Vac needed before and get a nice small one for the bit thats left.! Put a simple frame with doors on front and it's clean and quite with minimal impact on workshop.

  8. #48
    Jazz, I take your point about the trap. I never intended a design that was specifically to cut ally, ally was at the end of my list of materials to cut. The machine would be primarily to cut softer materials, but if capable of cutting ally occasionaly using light cuts it would be a bonus. If that is not possible it would not be the end of the world and as I have already said I suspect ally would need a different spindle. - Don't drop out Jazz -your input is highly valued.

    I usually cut MDF,ply and pcb matrerial using my newly built vacuum table and I suspect that I would struggle to keep loose pieces in position, hence my comments about the vertical machine.

    I am not aware of a small vertical machine, so perhaps something like that would make it really stand out from the crowd. Gravity chip clearance sounds
    interesting.

    It would be nice to hear a few more people commenting on the feasability and and specification of the machine.

    I was not wanting to specify the design myself, only to get some discussion going and then to come up with something.

    Even the 1k ish price was not a given, just a figure that I feel would generate some interest if achievable. G.
    Last edited by GEOFFREY; 28-12-2012 at 06:16 PM. Reason: deleted repeat!!

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by GEOFFREY View Post
    Jazz, I take your point about the trap. I never intended a design that was specifically to cut ally, ally was at the end of my list of materials to cut. The machine would be primarily to cut softer materials, but if capable of cutting ally occasionaly using light cuts it would be a bonus. If that is not possible it would not be the end of the world and as I have already said I suspect ally would need a different spindle. - Don't drop out Jazz -your input is highly valued.

    I usually cut MDF,ply and pcb matrerial using my newly built vacuum table and I suspect that I would struggle to keep loose pieces in position, hence my comments about the vertical machine.

    I am not aware of a small vertical machine, so perhaps something like that would make it really stand out from the crowd. Gravity chip clearance sounds
    interesting.

    It would be nice to hear a few more people commenting on the feasability and and specification of the machine.

    I was not wanting to specify the design myself, only to get some discussion going and then to come up with something.

    Even the 1k ish price was not a given, just a figure that I feel would generate some interest if achievable. G.

    did you watch the video i linked of jazz's vertical machine?
    Vertical.3gp - YouTube

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  11. #50
    I can't help thinking that what is needed is not so much a spoon fed full design, but more a decision tree against desired design parameters e.g if you want machine with more than an 1100mm X axis then you need 1610 ballscrews to avoid whipping, if you want to cut aluminium (say up to 6082) then you need to make the frame from extrusions of XxYmm , steel section etc not MDF and so on. Most of the questions I see on here, including my own, are based around trying to make the right decisions and then cost the machine build (time of build is another factor).

    The next step is refining the initial build based on feedback (my own benefitted greatly from Jazz, Jonathan, Irving and others), which only comes from being able to leverage real world experiemce on how a machine should perform.

    Of course once built there is the added factor of being able to program the thing correctly to avoid broken end mills etc (I'm on that learning curve myself).

    If I can find some time I could start the ball rolling, but I have limited knowledge myself, so wiser/more experienced heads than myself would need to fill in the gaps.

    Just a thought......


    Chris

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