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  1. #21
    Can't comment on the 2.2Kw water cooled spindles as although i have a few I have never looked into them.

    However when Ketan at ARC was looking at the air cooled range he carries he bought about 6 which we ran and also stripped to see what the differences were.

    Basically 4 of the vendors were lying thru their teeth about what was actually inside them, all the lies were about what bearings were fitted.

    The two remaining vendors did have genuine high grade German bearings fitted and there was virtually no difference in their products.

    I see no reason why the water cooled spindles do not follow this same pattern. Personally if i was in the market for one I'd go with Chai.
    John S -

  2. #22
    BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over 600!! When I looked in February they were around 250-280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

    Thanks
    Mike

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyC38 View Post
    BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over 600!! When I looked in February they were around 250-280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

    Thanks
    Mike
    Ive been looking the same as you and Ive decided to go for the air cooled ones because its a gamble where ever you get them because you cannot see the bearings without breaking the warranty seal, Just like john said, chai Is great and ive bought plenty of other stuff from him in the past but i may take a gamble on this

    NEW UPDATE 3KW AIR COOLED/ER20 GERMANY BEARING SPINDLE MOTOR AND MATCHING INVERTER-in Machine Tool Spindle from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

    Rick
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  4. #24
    It's clear that we have good evidence to expect to receive a good spindle from Chai, but to me that's not reason enough to spend at least 36 extra on one. The only part I've heard of having problems is the spindle bearings, in particular using relatively cheap Chinese bearings and installing them incorrectly.

    Lower quality bearings:
    • We don't know if Chai uses 'good' bearings or not.
    • They're likely to not last as long as high grade bearings, but apart from that I doubt you will notice a difference. They may run at a very slightly higher temperature, or have marginally lower run-out, but for the vast majority of people that is a negligible error. If you really need very low runout, then spend the extra 150-200 ish and get a better quality spindle from Aliexpress.com as that will be far better than the former, even if you get lucky.


    Incorrect bearing installation:
    • This is clearly bad, but if you notice it before it's too late then it's not difficult to change the bearings round. These spindles are surprisingly easy to dismantle.
    • I can only find evidence of a spindle with 3 bearings being assembled incorrectly. Therefore if you get a 4 bearing spindle, which is a good idea anyway, then we can expect it to be assembled correctly. The 4 bearing spindles use 4 angular contact bearings, with the front pair both one way and the top pair the opposite way, placing the shaft in tension.


    So overall, yes spending the extra money does give you peace of mind, but if you compare that to the probability of getting a bad one from other sellers it's surely worth 'risking' it. Also you can get the spindles a little cheaper than the standard eBay price if you use aliexpress and perhaps more importantly their payment system is such that the seller only gets your money when the item has arrived and you say it's good. That's pretty good leverage when trying to get a bad product replaced.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyC38 View Post
    BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over 600!!
    Remember to search worldwide - if you tick UK only the prices are silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardoco View Post
    Ive been looking the same as you and Ive decided to go for the air cooled ones because its a gamble where ever you get them because you cannot see the bearings without breaking the warranty seal
    Don't - you can't use very low speeds with the air cooled ones, otherwise they overheat. They're also going to be much noisier, which will add to the total noise when cutting. Also what's to suggest the bearings in an air cooled one will be any better?
    I've never seen a warranty seal on one, but equally I wouldn't recommend dismantling one just for kicks...since knowing which bearings you have doesn't really change how you use it.
    Last edited by Jonathan; 26-03-2013 at 01:51 AM.
    Old router build log here. New router build log here. Lathe build log here.
    Electric motorbike project here.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Don't - you can't use very low speeds with the air cooled ones, otherwise they overheat. They're also going to be much noisier, which will add to the total noise when cutting. Also what's to suggest the bearings in an air cooled one will be any better?
    I've never seen a warranty seal on one, but equally I wouldn't recommend dismantling one just for kicks...since knowing which bearings you have doesn't really change how you use it.
    Hi Jonathan, well I think there have been changes since the first square ones came out.

    I spent the day with a friend and he was cutting most of the day with his square one, it is noisey ill give you that, but not as noisey as i thought it was going to be, as for not being able to cut at lower speeds, his one was an 18000rpm model and he ran that all day at 8500rpm and yes it got hot but nothing to speak of.

    As i said, like the round ones, things have come a long way since they came out.

    He killed two square ones and a round one in 2011 and he has had this square one since may 2012 so something has changed and its not his supplier, admittedly he dosnt run it 8hrs at a time but 4-5hrs a day is not unusual, I understand that none of these spindles (square or round)runs well at low speeds because the lack of torque at lower speeds is prohibitive, so ive had to make a decision based on what ive seen, if there are round spindles out there in that price bracket (including mount,pump, tank, piping, and inverter of course) that can be seen working then point me to it ill have a look. My friends one has a warranty seal on it, must be the supplier used.
    As you say it is a gamble, because its so far away, you could get anything. Ive actually asked for a price with ceramic bearings, on both the square and the round.

    Rick
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Personally if i was in the market for one I'd go with Chai.
    I think i'll do the same, if i get a lemon it wont be great.

    I would have thought we would all be looking for ceramic bearings anyway in these, just wondering if we should start advising to go for the cheap ones and then upgrade to ac ceramic bearings anyway? or do ceramic bearings cost to much for that?

    EDIT: Best price i can see for a 7005 ceramic angular contact is around the 100 mark lol.

    .Me
    Last edited by Lee Roberts; 26-03-2013 at 06:33 PM.
    .Me

  7. #27
    Ceramic is a buzz word.
    Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

    Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

    Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?
    John S -

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Ceramic is a buzz word.
    Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

    Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

    Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?
    How could anyone argue with something put so elequently... Cheers John

    Rick
    Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other - Abe Lincoln

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Ceramic is a buzz word.
    Ceramic bearing only come into play at speed we can't reach.

    Long short is crash a spindle with ceramic bearings in and they are toast, decent steel bearings which can easily stand 24,000 revs with the right lubrication can withstand a crash provided it's not monumental.

    Drop a block of steel on a tiled floor, which one comes out best ?
    lol indeed, point taken !

    .Me
    .Me

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyC38 View Post
    BTW guys just a quick question about current pricing and sourcing for these 2.2kw Spindles and VFDs. I've been searching on ebay and now the prices are over 600!! When I looked in February they were around 250-280. Anybody know why such ar large increase other than supply and demand?

    Thanks
    Mike
    Dunno why the price has more than doubled on ebay but that now makes the 3kw spindle setup cheaper at 400

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