BT/ISO15 ATC Spindle Cartridge on Kickstarter

[m_c]

I'm sure some of you will of probably seen this, but there's currently a BT/ISO 15 ATC over on kickstarter - CNC BT15/ISO15 ATC Spindle Cartridge and Spindle Shaft Kit by Dale Walsh — Kickstarter

Looks quite promising, and I am very tempted for future use.
There are various options ranging from $10 just for the plans, to $2500 for a full spindle, air cylinder and 30 tool holders.
A complete spindle on it's own is $775, although it's not to clear on what's included with that option.

[dalecnc]

I'm sure some of you will of probably seen this, but there's currently a BT/ISO 15 ATC over on kickstarter - CNC BT15/ISO15 ATC Spindle Cartridge and Spindle Shaft Kit by Dale Walsh — Kickstarter

Looks quite promising, and I am very tempted for future use.
There are various options ranging from $10 just for the plans, to $2500 for a full spindle, air cylinder and 30 tool holders.
A complete spindle on it's own is $775, although it's not to clear on what's included with that option.

Not clear???

Each reward is clearly explained about what will be provided, $775.00 spindle cartridge only, no tool holders no air cylinder, just the spindle cartridge.

The prices of the rewards are the production cost, there is no profit and before you make any foolish remarks about being able to make the same product/quality cheaper, consider that there is $394.00 USD in the two front bearings alone, the remaining $381.00 for material, machining, tempering, hardening and precision grinding and did I mention the petal-clamp, this clearly demonstrates mass production without profit so how could you produce it cheaper without making major sacrifices is not possible.

And the only reason I can get the bearings for $197.00ea is that we regularly buy 500 matched pairs per order at work and I add on what I need, if I had to buy the bearings retail, the cost would be more than $325.00ea for cheaper NSK sealed AC bearings and it would then be impossible to produce it for $775.00.

-- Dale Walsh

[Jonathan]

The prices of the rewards are the production cost, there is no profit and before you make any foolish remarks about being able to make the same product/quality cheaper [...] so how could you produce it cheaper without making major sacrifices is not possible.

I don't think m_c was saying he could make or get any of it cheaper, so please do not accuse people of making 'foolish remarks' when they've just asked a simple question.

I look forward to seeing where this goes as I certainly would like an ATC spindle.

[stuboy]

I to would love an ATC spindle, hopefully on my next machine :-) Looks like a great project and its now fully funded, will be great to see some of the finished articles, will keep a close eye on it and report back :-)
Cheers
Stuart

[dalecnc]

I to would love an ATC spindle, hopefully on my next machine :-) Looks like a great project and its now fully funded, will be great to see some of the finished articles, will keep a close eye on it and report back :-)
Cheers
Stuart

The spindle was scheduled for production regardless of kickstarter, kickstarter only allowed people the opportunity to get one at production cost, these people are the lucky ones.

One of the guys in our group has expressed an interest to make a production run later to stock and sell the product, unfortunately he expects a profit for his time, financial investment and resources so I don't know what the price will be but following typical retail markup, it will probably be around $1200.00 for just the cartridge.

There are some factories in china producing BT15-ER20 tool holders so 1/2in tooling is possible but we don't have this size produced for us so I can't offer it.

[JAZZCNC]

Dale I was and still are very interested in your spindles but the only thing that stopped me was the fact I want larger tool sizes and BT30 would be preferred option so do you have any plans for cartridges of this size.?

Also what's the news on the Motors with encoders I saw you post about a while back.?

[dalecnc]

I don't think m_c was saying he could make or get any of it cheaper, so please do not accuse people of making 'foolish remarks' when they've just asked a simple question.

I look forward to seeing where this goes as I certainly would like an ATC spindle.

The remark was directed at anyone considering making a post about cheaper production and not at any one particular person.

[dalecnc]

In the past, I have produced ATC router spindles in ISO20 size, the issue is the price, the first response is usually "I can buy something similar in china for about $1,000.00 less" and from my perspective, anyone making this claim deserves to buy the china ATC router spindle because their sole purchasing factor is the price.

It is a known fact that china copied my air-cooled square body ER20 router spindle (and did a lousy job at it) and I can't compete with their price unless I use the same low-quality bearings, stator and rotor and this is not an option for me.

This doesn't include the warranty nightmare I've encountered by people trying to get me to warranty their china spindle and they think I'm just trying to avoid providing the warranty.

My stator and rotor do not fit in the china copy, the spindles are physically different sizes and their is no way to put a 82mm OD stator in a 70mm ID body or that the china body itself is 78mm shorter and if it did fit would stick out the top and bottom.

There are some who have purchased the china copy and then purchased one of mine and they all report the differences in just using it is night and day.

I warranty my products, I ensure the purchaser has no issues obtaining warranty but I can't offer warranty for a product that isn't mine and I wont use substandard parts in an attempt to make a profit or reduce the price if it has no life expectancy.

I would be extremely surprised if you could find anyone who has previously purchased a spindle of any type from me that would have anything negative to report about it, most have made repeat purchases as they add new machines to their production line.

When the production run with the updated body is finished, I'll post a picture on my website for those who want to see the finished product.

Unfortunately I'm not a business, I don't have a store or a web-store (or the time to manage one) and my efforts are in helping those home/hobby users who want something at the lowest possible price I can offer it for.

When companies like A2Z or Sherline contact me expressing interest in a product, they argue that I've offered a lower price to somewhere or sometime and refuse to pay more so I just stop communicating with them, they expect a profit and in all fairness I expect one too.

It's not like they contracted me to design a product for them and their retail prices usually exceeds the majority of the home/hobby users budget so I have no incentive to provide them with anything.

The reason that no one else makes such a product is the production cost versus Fair Market Value (MFV) are almost equal so the target market is usually something specialized that is willing to pay considerably more and this does not promote home/hobby CNC.

Real spindle motors are another hard to get item at a reasonable price, real as in an asynchronous servo spindle motor (2.2KW/3.0KW) 10,000RPM with an encoder in a small (140mm x 140mm) footprint (pic on website).

GSK CNC panels, I can offer anyone a GSK980MDa1 panel cheaper than they can buy it anywhere else because I am an authorized GSK dealer (long story no interest to repeat it) and when companies try to take advantage of my pricing they are disappointed that I wont play ball.

There are many people producing products under the guise that they are promoting the home/hobby CNC market but when they do it with a substantial profit, in my opinion they are only promoting their wallets.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against profit but surely someone can produce a product at a bearable price even sacrificing quality a little or funcitonality

Our group probably has about 30 plans for VMC frames and we have looked into having these produced but it always ends up the same, high engineering and mold/pattern expenses and high MOQ's prevent them from coming to fruition so all that is really available is overpriced poorly designed VMC frames from china and we aren't interested in offering them.

[dalecnc]

OK, unfortunately with all of the fourms and all of the inquiries I'm recieving, it is impossible to answer each one directly and for those who were unable to message me due to a full box I have made it very simple to contact me in real time.

I now have a website, Click Here, I also have an IRC set up irc.dalecnc.com so you can contact me directly (requires IRC client software, not accessibly by browser).

The overwhelming number of tire kickers sending me PM's on various forums and by e-mail has forced me to ignore most of them cause as one person I can't handle the 200-300 pieces I'm getting a day.

If you believe I should be able to sell you a cartridge for $200.00 becuase you think that is all it's worth, please don't insult your self by contacting me and demanding one for this price, the front bearings alone cost $400.00 so it would be impossible to give it to you for that ridiculous price.

If you want intelligent questions answered I recommend you contact me in my IRC as it is doubtful I will repsond to further PM's or e-mail.