Hello to all. I have checked and I hope I am posting in the correct place - please let me know that my post is okay. I hope it will be of use to some of you.
My name is Rory Stoney and I am pleased to announce that the JBEC CNC ROUTER platform is now available in the UK via StoneyCNC (STONEY CNC · ROUTER SYSTEMS). The JBEC CNC router platform is based on a German platform design and is assembled in Kilkenny in Ireland in affiliation with JBEC. JBEC (John Brennan) has had 30 years experience in the automotive industry and has full industrial fabrication facilities in house allowing us to assembly and customize machine design with exact professional tolerances in house on a 3D Hurco machine platform. Within JBEC commercial machining work is a core competence and we therefore understand the challenges associated with machine building and the associated design challenges.
The machine is based on 80mm x 50mm box section bed frame construction design supporting the gantry and T-slot aluminium bed. The results is a very stiff robust platform with excellent accuracy and stiffness translated to the cutting tip - the key to good CNC router performance. The platform has had great success since its release in Ireland supporting many new and growing business opportunities.
Our standard machine is controlled using high spec Oriental-stepper-motors driven by Leadshine drives on all axes - feel free to ask for more information. We adopt a 24V DC latched on/off circuit on all out machines as standard as safety is out no.1 priority. We also offer a servo stepper version where extremely high performance is required.
I have had experience in CNC for a number of years and have experienced a range of low cost machines. I would view our platform as potentially one of the most high performance in the sub 10,000€/£ range - I'm very open to and would welcome comments/challenges on the back of this statement.... our platform is a standalone unit - no alignment or hardware assembly on site is required. The machine will be delivered and will perform to our stringent quality checks on site within minutes.
We acknowledge that our platform typically comes in more expensive than others in this category but we view it a full professional system within its price range and we do not compromise on the system design. Machining / cycle times can be thrashed with increased feed rates without compromising the quality of the machined part.
The video below shows our stated repeatability down to 0.02mm. The efficient transmission of torque via ball-screws through our stiff frame maintains the repeatability during cutting operations at high feed rates. Repeatability values as you all know must be translated into cutting operations for stated accuracies to prevail in practice. A dial gauge does not challenge the gantry stiffness it merely gives an indication of the drive and gantry efficiency.
The following clip shows an engraving toolpath onto a piece of Oak for a sign - the machining time was sub 10 minutes and could be reduced further - again feel free for more proof
As part of our service to date in Ireland our focus is on supporting the technology and helping the knowledge grow. We prefer to discuss projects with customers to help specify the specific machine performance requirements. We also like to follow up with progress and help as best we can. As an example Woodelo make Ash bike frames (see out testimonials section on the site) using our machine system for full 3D work and JBEC helped build and design a rig for assembling the frames as well as the machine installation. We prefer to deliver and commission in person and get to know our customers - we intend on continuing in this light in the UK - we do also offer a courier / pick up delivery service if required.
We also offer a range of retro fit solutions for small and medium stepper solutions as well as bigger more powerful servo conversions. More details and case studies will appear on our site as it is still under development. As part of our retro fit and machine building experience we have extensive knowledge in control electronics. Many of you I'm sure are aware of some of the limitations associated with LPT printer port machine control commonly via Mach3... Certain PC's can generate poor performance on exactly the same hardware. Artsoft and Mach3 have done an amazing job getting Mach to work on such a wide range of hardware systems.
Therefore we currently offer a USB controller as an optional upgrade for 70-80£ (ex works) which transforms the machine for full high speed 3D performance on almost any PC running Mach3 - demonstrations of this will be available soon.
We are also working on one aspect of our machine where out platform stiffness can really be demonstrated. Cutting aluminium and light metals is a topic that is often dropped into performance specs but rarely demonstrated in my opinion. We hope to have a full demo of our machine milling aluminium samples as soon as we can.
We also offer extras such as
High speed spindles
Mist coolant delivery systems
Auto zero probe installations
If you have any questions regarding the platform or anything that appears on our website please don't hesitate to contact us. We welcome and encourage any feedback/requests/performance challenges
Lastly - more of a question to the wider CNC community I hope to reach out to on this site - is there an event/medium through which we could have a stand and demonstrate the machine to it can be seen locally in the flesh - a picture and video can only communicate so much?
You've made a Neat looking machine with plenty of thought and experience gone into it but how much is it.!!! . . You forgot that bit.!
Others will be interested to know has am I. ?
Old but true saying.
"If you have to ask you can't afford it "
John S -
The original posting said sub 10K euros, but did not specify machine specifications. G.
By standard I mean complete with fully working control box (with or without PC) and machine with limit switch's, home switches.
Things like Probes, 4th axis etc are considered extra's IMO.
Dean, Geoffry and John - thanks for your input!! Cash is indeed king at the end of the day - But cash driven purchases can drive the total cost of ownership up - one has to look at the cost over the lifetime of the machine.
Dean you summarised the options well - your no stranger to CNC. I shall try and be as comprehensive as possible with regard to the prices.
Firstly the standard stepper driven machine comes with 48V switching PSU driving 3 Leadshine DM556's. Our motors are speced as high quality Oriental motors with 4.2A/phase with 1.6mH/phase winding inductance. Therefore the PSU voltage and motors are matched. Don't be seduced by cheaper motors with apparently high holding torque - the system must me matched to the application and to the PSU and drives.
We have no "stand alone control box" for the machine. If you look at the machine bed at the back where the Tslot bed ends all the control gear is neatly housed away out of site. The only wires coming out of the machine are the 230V AC in and the control connection. With that said we are also working on a stand alone option for retro fit solutions.
So the professional platform has the following specs
- T slot aluminium machine table
- All three axes are driven by ball screws
- 6,000mm/min feed rates
- High power stepper motors
- Accuracy repeatability down to as low as 0.02mmm
- All control electronics fully installed
- Machine wired for M03 and M05 AC on/off for spindle control
- Latched on/off 24V DC safety for machine power management
- Home switches on all three axes
Machine options: The following prices are for the machine commissioned in Hereford UK ready for off (No PC)- delivery carriage / personal delivery can be discussed. Our prices are based on what we see necessary for a successful CNC machine sale. The sale in itself in our opinion is only half the story. Total cost of ownership to the customer must be considered. We offer 12 months warranty on all Hardware and do our best to provide the best support we can to our customers. We also do our best to work with our customers so that the machine can carry out its required function - and is specified appropriately. We offer pre-sale demonstration of a body of work to demonstrate the functionality if requested.
- JBEC604012 (600 x 400 x 125) - 4,250£
- JBEC106512 (1000 x 650 x 125) - 5,150£
- JBEC1259012 (1250 x 900 x 125)- 5,980£
I can post servo stepper prices if requested. We also offer a fully enclosed version currently available on the smaller 604012 machine. We can enclose the bigger machines and can discuss this further if requested.
Spindle options: We offer Kress and high speed spindle options. The price includes integration of the spindle system into the machine. i.e the machine is ready for spindle addition - plugin and go - M03 & M05
- Kress 1080FME 150£
- 1.1kW High speed spindle option with inverter - full installed in the machine - 850£ (Comes with an ER20 compatible collet head)
We can supply Kress collets and ER20 collets/accessories if needed. If you would like to use your own spindle we can fabricate you a custom mount.
Control options: We can provide a refurbished PC with 12 months warranty in parallel to the machine if necessary. The machine can be run for 2D and some3D work on the LPT printer port connection and rapids as standard are set at up to 6,000mm/min. For full 3D machining we offer a USB upgrade. While I do not recommend it whatsoever - we have had the machine moving with rapids (single direction movement in either axis) of 15,000mm/min with the USB controller. We can demonstrate this if needed.
- Mach 3 installation onto PC - 120£
- Mach3 installation onto PC with USB upgrade installation combo - 220£ (150£ for installation 70£ for USB controller hardware)
- Customers are responsible for their own license key for Mach3
- Refurbished PC with all peripherals - 100-300£ model dependant.
We will install and commission on a customers PC if required and the performance in the LPT printer port mode is subject to the PC Hardware passing the Mach3 driver test
Maintenance While keeping the machine clean and free from swarf and potential hardware snags is essential for reliable operation - the machine is virtually maintenance free. The helical raceway inside the ballscrew drive mechanism can be lubricated using easily accessible grease nipples. There is adjustment options on the drives for long term wear. As of yet we have not had to do this on any of our installed platforms.
Due to an unexpected rapid growth in demand here in Ireland we have minimal stock available for out launch into the UK. We will have a JBEC604012 and JBEC106512 ready by early September. Leadtime on a machine order that is not in stock is 6-8 weeks.
We have put together the CNC package based on our own experience in CNC in recent years. The price to performance specs are such due to the clever design coupled with volume production of core sub assemblies in Germany. This coupled to our access to in house professional fabrication equipment enables us to provide and support such a machine and customise it appropriately.
I hope the detail are clear.
So roughly £5500 for working Mid size machine with No PC or Spindle. . . .Thank you for a straight answer.
I wish you well with this machine and it's well thought out and put together. The only thing that concerns me is the linear bearings.?
At this money I would be expecting profiled linear rails, Looking at this machine it appears like it's using some Hybrid design.? Round rail in a machined housing.?
Because of all the shielding etc which is good thing, but does always make me wonder is it for the right reasons or just hiding something not so desirable.? we can't actually see the bearings/carriage and type or how the ride on the rails.!! . . . . Would it be possible to see this area please.?
Has you know and I know the linear rails are major part the machine and affect accuracy and quality of cut greatly so for this machine to stand the test of time the bearings/carriage design will need to be good. Even cheap bearings will last 12mth warranty period and for nearly 5K I'd be wanting and expecting maintenance free(other than lube) bearings for minimum 3-5yrs or better. So this would be an important and off putting if not decent quality design and bearings consideration for me.!!
Rest of machine looks Spot on thou. .
Oh Not keen on all electrics being housed in part of the main cutting frame, Shock vibration etc doesn't do most things any good. Then there's them pesky chips and coolant issues, esp if you plan on cutting aluminium which some will want to do, has even with air/mist coolant still collects and runs into cracks etc so hope it's well sealed.!
Please don't think I'm trying to pull machine down, I'm honestly not. I'm just doing my usual close looking and pointing out things less experienced potential customers won't see. If experienced folks like me don't speak up then we end up with likes of Strike CNC taking folks for thousands.
Edit: Ps. Would be nice to see pics of inside the Electrical housing so we can be sure there's no Ala Strike CNC booby trap surprises.!!
Last edited by JAZZCNC; 08-08-2013 at 12:22 PM.
Dean - This is exactly the sort of involved feedback we are looking for and in our opinion it is very difficult to get people to think in this manner - thank you for taking the time to look over our system and highlight some very important considerations when looking at this type of router system. Typically with customers the price tag is king - but only half the story. And as you know only once you get to know the beast do you start to see the quirks.
I am not familiar with Strike CNC? What was the story there with their "booby trap"? haha sounds like fun times :) Every minute your "bought CNC machine" is "not machining for you" or at the very least "in a position to do so" it is lost value to the customer. When I bought my first router I spent more time making it better than using it!!! Our experience with other low cost router systems have shown up common pitfalls in machine design. With that said low cost machines do teach people CNC and are accessible at their price. The problem is customers do not fully understand the limitations of such systems at the point of sale and this has created issues with support warranties etc. It is for these reasons that we have chosen the presented platform.
And I'm 100% with you on the rail systems. The rail system is probably THE most important part of the entire machine design. Our ball screws are shoulder machined on both sides and sit fully supported at each end condition in the bearing housing. Therefore no load is transferred to the motor and there is no "rock" within the bearings in the frame. This design while generating excellent performance inherently challenges the gantry structure as the frame MUST be straight and 100% true to prevent lock up and jamming etc - this design demands flawless performance from the rail system. We have two ball-screws driving each gantry pillar on the main axis also. This is part of the reason we have such a stiff frame and supply a fully modular system. With the design there is no scope for misalignment of the gantry structure due to improper bench installation etc etc. However the trade off with the stiff heavy superstructure is that it does add to the cost but we feel its more than justified.
Our rail system is custom built in Germany - I won't go into specifics until I have pictures to support explanations - early next week at the latest.
The electronics are safely sealed away - all the cover panels are CNC cut and are sealed with sealant around the edges. The Tslot table end condition also provides a level of drip creep prevention from pesky coolant :) More details to come ASAP also there
We have had customers hammering 3D work in hardwood with no issues on full time production. The drive and PSU mount layout has heat-sink properties and there is also room for adding control boards if necessary for advanced machine variations.
We have a machine in a stage of assembly that that will suit to support the information you are after. I will be working on the machine on Monday and will take some sample pictures of the considerations you have highlighted. Is there anything else you would like to see while the opportunity is there?
Also - can you point me in the direction of a possible show/fair/expo where a stand would cross paths with the wider CNC community? We prefer potential customers seeing it in the flesh.
Thanks for your time and open honesty it's rare quality these days from folks trying to make money from CNC.
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