Mach3 vs Mach4

[Swarfing]

silyavski this is very true and if you PAY for your software you should EXPECT the appropriate support. Horses for courses and people should research what is best for them before taking the plunge. I for one would not venture into any software before finding out if there where any known issues with my hardware, paying for it or not. Look at how many issues there are just trying to get M4 released?

I rest my case :-)

[JAZZCNC]

And the so called problem people are experiencing is just a configuration problem and people not understanding the G540's limits.

Don't want to get into this any further but just say in this G540 case the guy in question is vastly experienced and runs is own CNC business selling controls and components so he's no Muppet.!!

Oh and no sign the guy fixed the issue.?? . . . Think you'll find he didn't because Linux won't allow the G540 to run in EPP mode so the charge pump won't work.!! . . . Here in lies the problem, In the above case the guy is experienced in electronics and software programming and prove it was a linux bug, he even told them where to look to fix it but here lies the issue that it's in the core and that requires the Linux committee to fix and Guru's don't deem it worthy. . . . So basicly get stuffed.!

[John S]

Basically M4 release or lack of it is Brians fault.
He announced it far to early and now he's being pressurised.
I can't make decisions for him but going back Art released the first beta of Mach 3 to the public and got them to do testing on the grounds that 100 users would probably find 100 faults, Art would probably miss all these as he was too deep into the program and blinkered.

Whilst that was going on he then worked on other things, screens, wizards etc.

Brian OTOH has done the screen designer and the new wizards for M4 when the program doesn't even exist in beta ?

Linux definitly has a place for the more experianced used, they just don't realise they have the experiance.

Currently I'm working with a linux guy on improving my hobber.
Simple he says just do a bootable USB stick and we will work from this.

Follow these instructions.

UNetbootin - Homepage and Downloads

Now scroll down and there are 52 versions of Linux.

At least mach only needs W2000 or XP, hardly rocket science.

[birchy]

Well, my experience with the LinuxCNC forums is that they've always been helpful and quick to respond. Most of the developers actually run CNC machines, so understand hardware as well as software. I think they can be a bit off-ish when people ask stupid questions like "why dunt my motorz work?" or ask operating questions that are clearly explained in the user manuals. The difference here is that the Mach developers are profit orientated, so are more willing to hold hands and wipe bums.

For Geeks like myself and Swarfing, we are fed up of the constant barrage of Windows updates, security packages and buggy software breaking things all the time. I personally discovered Linux when a friend's Windows 98 PC had become so corrupted that it was beyond repair. The ONLY way I was able to recover important files from the hard drive was using a Linux "Live CD". I'd never even heard of Linux before but was so impressed that I installed it on my own PC and have not used Windows since. The world's best supercomputers all use Linux. Google use Linux. The majority of web servers use Linux. Android IS Linux. The fact is, Microsoft had the best advertising campaign at the beginning of the computer revolution and is a totally profit based company.

For most of us "geeks", I think we are more annoyed that Micro$oft have duped the world into paying for a generally inferior operating system when there are FREE alternatives available. For me personally, I'm even more annoyed that the recent versions of Windows have copied features from Linux (Aero themes, multiple desktops, etc) and poor old Joe Public thinks "wow! that's cool!" but doesn't even realise that they could get the same thing for free a few years ago.

I shall dismount the soapbox now...

Regarding CNC software, it's a specialized setup and there's no need for bells and whistles. In fact, simplicity means stability, so avoiding an internet connection (and all the associated security risks and updates) is highly beneficial. Just like any other job, it's a case of choosing the most reliable and productive tools that YOU are comfortable with. If that turns out to be Mach or Eding or LinuxCNC or something else, then so be it. Bollocks to what everyone else thinks. My only advice is to keep an open mind and try as many as you can until you find the one you like best.

[Boyan Silyavski]

In the spirit of this conversation is worth noting that a separate computer to run the machine is a must. I have 2 in fact, old Dell cost me 30eur from a local boot sale and has win xp installed and is running fine.

Another thing is that i have 2 BOBs , the second one for closed loop and some extra inputs and outputs and it took me a lot of time to fiddle with printer port cards, PC BIOS and how to make them both work and in which mode each. Its worth researching before, about the exact modes needed to run the board you have or the integrated port, cause some computers LPT boards or LPT cards will NOT work due to lack of a certain mode.

[i2i]

maybe this thread could be compared to the Betamax versus vhs debate many years ago. Betamax being the vastly superior system never caught on, maybe because vhs got a foothold in the marketplace first.
Now the amount of windows users (yes it is m/soft) is massive compared to Linux (it's not m/soft), so the average guy/girl who wants to use a cnc machine may well be familiar to windows and probably even have a pc with windows already on it.
So what would be his or her best option.?

[birchy]

Now scroll down and there are 52 versions of Linux.

Yeah, I often laugh at that because the overwhelming choices puts off potential newbies. Lots of choice is great but it doesn't help the inexperienced.

Generally speaking, a bootable CD or DVD is the easiest. You download the O.S. as an ISO file and burn it to disk. Boot the PC from the CD/DVD and job's a good'un.

Forgive my ignorance, I don't know what a "hobber" is (EDIT: duhhh - just realised you mean a gear hobber)....If you're installing LinuxCNC, then you'll want their CD/DVD as it is a complete O.S. and software package. For anything else, Linux Mint is the way to go. It's newbie friendly and works straight out of the box. No need to install security packages (Norton, etc), Flash plugins, Java plugins, movie codecs, MS Office, etc..they're all pre-installed.

EDIT:
For your purposes, I think your friend is suggesting you install UNetbootin (which is the software used to create bootable USB sticks) BUT use the LinuxCNC ISO rather than one of those 52 choices! UNetbootin has an option for "Diskimage", so you'd need to choose that and point it at your downloaded image.

[birchy]

the average guy/girl who wants to use a cnc machine may well be familiar to windows and probably even have a pc with windows already on it.
So what would be his or her best option.?

99% of the time, they will choose Windows because they are already familiar with it. People don't like change, no matter how easy or difficult it may be. That's why M$ have done so well...

[John S]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Linux it works and works well it's really how the people who fully understand how it works just can't understand that others are not at their skill level.

Where M3 scores is that it's so easily configurable and there are far more users prepared to help which in turn helps the total number of users.

Linux or EMC didn't help them selves earlier on by being very clannish and to be honest having a very superior attitude to anyone who couldn't follow what they were doing.

Anyone remember the BDI version ? it stood for Brain Dead Install and was aimed at talking down to non linux users to show just how easy it was and what they were missing.

Problem was it didn't work for many of the users who tried it. they followed instruction to the letter, no joy and then followed instructions on how to get it to work.

Rather comical to read the posts of the day, Linux users getting more infuriated that the user couldn't get it to work, the user getting more confused from the curt one liners that they obviously never understood until finally the whole exchange petered out.

Linux geek scratching his head wondering why they couldn't understand something so simple and the would be user scratching his head and wondering if he needed to learn Serbo Croat to fully understand Linux.

[John S]

Yeah, I often laugh at that because the overwhelming choices puts off potential newbies. Lots of choice is great but it doesn't help the inexperienced.

Birchy,
You have hit the nail on the head, anyone moving from windows / mach3 will be inexperienced and after reading that page he'll also be confused

Is it any wonder they just give up ?

Seriously I'm not knocking it [ Linux ] but after all this time and with the amount of join man hours on the program you would thing that more time had been spent attracting new users instead of patting each other on the back.

Many low end motion packages have that amateurish appearance to them.
M3 in default screen looks like the flight deck of a 747
Most of the USB controllers look very similar like they have all been done in MS Paint
Linux looks like their screen is just an afterthought, looking neither amateurish or professional.

M3 for instance has different screens for lathe and mill to match the machine.