Ok, I now have a machine that came with a 800w water cooled spindle (it's a used machine & didn't come with a VFD...presumably because the VFD went the way of 'he no workee')
I'm having severe doubts about even buying a replacement VFD, becuase...
1. The 800w spindle seems stupidly heavy for the size of this 3020 machine (& I'd rather have a zippy Z axis)
2. Water cooling just seems like a hassle (especially when my CNC sessions are typically 30 minutes to mill a pcb!)
3. I only ever mill pcbs (1.6mm thick fibleglass boards) and 5mm acrylic (never metal!)
but mainly because....
4. Every youtube video I've listened to, makes these water cooled spindles sound like jumbo jets taxi'ing down a runway (& I thought the unique selling point for these spindles was lower noise!). Jonathan's video helps my quest - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xciLCN2Dz08 but it sounds loud ....like erhm 'put that darned thing in a detached garage at the bottom of the garden' type of loud ...but once again, the camera is very close to the spindle)!
With this latter point in mind can anyone give me their thoughts on how loud their water cooled spindle sounds turning at say 12,000rpm?
My sensitivity to noise is because my CNC is in our house (in our dining room, you never hear anyone say "could you pass to the ketchup please", but rather "could you hand me a 3.175mm ball tip endmill please") ....my wife isn't at all happy about this arrangement (alas, "Oi woman ...know your place", hasn't had quite the required effect) & having the sounds of a jet turbine within earshot of Eastenders isn't going to strengthen our relationship! I'm hoping that all these aforementioned youtube videos sound loud because typically the camera gets *real* close to the spindle & therefore the mic gets real close to the spindle ....but how loud does a spindle sound at a couple of metres? (I realize this is subjective & perhaps unreliable, but nevertheless I'd welcome your comments. I actually rather fancy one of these in place of a water cooled spindle....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/12v-52v-Air-.../dp/B00CM5WCNO (i.e. a 2013 updated 400W version of the standard 300W spindle that's particularly ubiquitous in the budget CNC world)
With respect to controlling the speed & turning the VFD on/off....again, most videos I've seen, see the VFD mounted on a wall or pillar near the operator & then they press buttons on the VFD to start stop the spindle (what a drag) ....well if I went the way of a VFD, it would go in the CNC control box...so how much of an ordeal is it to control the VFD remotely (I'm thinking here by the CNC app ...how is the speed set remotely ...PWM? Some serial protocol?)
Last edited by HankMcSpank; 06-09-2013 at 06:34 PM. Reason: Particularly Mary Hinge.
What we need us for people to use the sound meter app on their mobiles and measure the actual dBa level 1m from the spindle at a known rpm, say 10k
Most VFD have a 'run' input that can be driven by a BOB output. The speed input to most VFD is a 0 - 10v analogue signal that some BOBs can output.
As you probably guessed, the reason I spoke in the youtube video you linked to was so that you could set the volume so that I'm speaking at a normal volume, and judge the noise from the spindle accordingly.
I doubt the spindle from amazon will be quiet as it has a fan on the end, so there will be noise created by the airflow. This is unnecessary when you can quietly water cool it. Don't be afraid of the water cooling - it can be simple and easy.
If you go for one of the better quality (and much more expensive) water cooled spindles, I'm pretty confident you'll find it's a lot quieter than the standard 2.2kW ones. The one I used here is that type, and I recently obtained a 3kW one on eBay for the right price which is even quieter:
Admittely it's a bit on the large size for your machine, but I expect the 0.8kW one isn't going to be worse. Also you'll get much lower runout (a few micrometers) with these spindles, which could be an advantage if you're cutting a particularly detailed PCB. I can post a video with them both switched on one at a time if you want to compare?
Edit: Unfortunately I don't have a new enough phone to measure sound level.
P.S. Where about is 'on the move'? Clearly the best way is for you to actually listen to one - you're welcome to pop round...
Last edited by Jonathan; 06-09-2013 at 06:42 PM.
Re the air cooled 400w spindle ...I've presently got a 300W version & whipped the fan of it....it's stupidly quiet (but obviously I can't run it for long!)
Yeah, your new/improved spindle is way too big for my modest machine.... 'on the move' is actually London (I was about to move to Dorset but it all went pete Tong - still might), but nevertheless, thatnks for the offer but it's a little bit too far to come & have a listen.
Perhaps I'll just pony up for a VFD & just run the spindle at lowers RPMS if the noise is too prohibitive.....
I have 800w watercolled spindle and honestly its the quitest thing in my garage. The router bit itself makes 50x noise when routing. if your breakout board do not suppost output of 0-10v the next best thing to do is attach to an available output this board c41
Dont be put off the spindle, you want be disappointed. They sound like jets, due to the microphone autolevels of the cameras or phones with cameras used making the videos. In reality, you can not hear it next room.
Instead of spending money on radiators, you can follow my advice on the other thread you started and use the money for the C41 PWM control. Once you set up the frequencies you forget about this. Look at the picture of my setup on the other thread you started http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/router...s-buckets.html . See that paper just above the computer, ticked to the wall? That was from the time i was not controlling it via the C41. Every time i had to set up the frequency responding to measured RPM. Its a table of frequencies and responding RPM.
Now i have my tool database in Aspire programmed, so the CAM exports the G code and mach3 picks up the RPM from the G code and commands it directly. One less thing to worry.
Even if Dean /Jazzcnc/ pointed at one other thread that the chinese VFDs are getting better every day, if i were you i would buy this one INVERTER VETTORIALE TOSHIBA 0,75 kW 230 Volt MONOFASE USCITA MOTORE TRIFASE 1 HP | eBay
Another benefit versus 300w one is that if your machine is rigid enough or not , with very light passes you can do aluminum. At this point you will run it at 3000RPM so 800w spindle is quite more stronger than 300w at low RPM. And as they pointed to you, the run out is very small. I doubt that the 300w one comes with four bearings like the 800w.
The Following User Says Thank You to Boyan Silyavski For This Useful Post:
Pointless seeking advice if I don't act upon it, so upon your recommendation, I've just this minute pulled the trigger on this VFD...
toshiba vfnc3s-2004pl inverter | eBay (which is what the model that you linked to)
Toshiba are normally a good make, so I'll take a leap of faith here!
I think just to get up and running, I'll go with a passive option (pump & a bucket - I'll get slick later)....has anyone a recommendation for a quiet suitable water pump
Last edited by HankMcSpank; 06-09-2013 at 09:16 PM.
NOTE: VFNC3S-2004PL. Toshiba Tosvert VF-nC3 Inverter for 0.37kW (0.5HP) 230V
The one i recommended you was the 2007PL for the 0.8kw
Did you make a mistake or bought this on purpose for your smaller motor?
I searched Ebay UK for the model in the italy ebay ad you linked to ...and Ebay returned the one I've just bought...I overlooked that model number difference! (heaven knows why it was returned in my search)
I've emailed the seller, hopefully we can cancel the transaction!!
Last edited by HankMcSpank; 06-09-2013 at 09:48 PM.
If your concerned about getting the Chinese VFD, which I wouldn't be, bear in mind if you get the 1.5kW or 2.2kW version and run a spindle rate for only 800W then it's always going to be operating at a tiny fraction of the rating. This means it's not going to get hot, and heat tends to be what wears out electrical components. Also, plenty of people here use them so it's guaranteed to be easy to set up.
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