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  1. #11
    Magic,
    It's not purely about cost.
    Yes as you say I have paid more for the programs I use but feel more loyal to them.
    My license allows me to use it on two machines but there isn't a check on it. I probably have it on 4 or 5 machines but I can only use one machine at a time.

    Main thing is i don't have to get a new license when i change computers which is quite regular these days.

    Another point is also based on price, at the low prices you quote you are targeting people who can't afford high end programs like Solid Works etc. These are usually individuals who are price concious as opposed to large companies who will pay the money to get faster / better results.

    This means that like me, even if they have 10 computers they can only use one.

    It's all about trust, treat the user like a prospective thief and they will resent it.

    Use Vectric as an example, they came from nowhere a few years ago and in the space of 4 years got awarded the Queens Award for industry. Reason ? they have a very loyal user base and a lot of their sales are by referral.

    [edit] some posts came in whilst I was typing.

    Irving said basically the same as I did so I'm not alone.

    JCB121
    can't really comment on it.
    Downloaded the program onto my main machine and started to do the tutorials.
    The tutorials BTW are crap, doing a wine glass doesn't teach you anything. In nearly 50 years in the trade I have NEVER had to machine anything that looks like a wine glass.

    Draw a shaped line, revolve it round an axis and you have a glass. Hang on, if you already have the shaped line just bang in on the lathe. you don't need any 3D program for that.

    Anyway decided to put it on the laptop so i could play at night away from my desk but no, got to start all over again so lost heart as usually if I'm on my main machine I'm busy with other things.

    However since then the desktop machine has been upgraded so i don't even have a working license for the program so basically wasted my money.
    Last edited by John S; 23-10-2013 at 09:18 AM.
    John S -

  2. Hi Irving,

    Accept it's your right to licence as you see fit but you're going to alienate a large part of your target user base, which I would argue is the small business, intermittent user, hobby market. You might think you're targeting the Autocad market but for organisations that buy those products price isn't the only factor (in fact in my considerable experience as an IT consultant it's often a long way down the list as price per seat is always negotiable).
    DesignCAD is an easy-to-learn and easy-to-use CAD package, and you can't say that it's targeted at a specific user base in terms of size or whether they are intermittent or home users. You can do just about anything with it, and you don't have to be an expert to use it.

    My experience with IT-consultants and internal IT-departments is that they must justify their existence and make life as easy for themselves as possible. This means that they can only recommend something that's expensive (and then they get points for knocking the price a bit), and IT-departments usually recommend, what they already got even for jobs that only require drawing a few lines and a circle. So quite often you have to invest not only the 10,000 for the software, but you also have to hire an expert to actually draw the lines and the circle.

    And please consider, how much money could be saved, if the public sector used DesignCAD instead of AutoCAD. Did you know that you can buy 17 NEW DesignCAD v. 23s for the price of an AutoCAD LT 2014 UPGRADE and 28 NEW DesignCAD 3D MAX v. 23s for the price of an AutoCAD 2014 UPGRADE.

    If price is so far down the list, I'm wondering, why it's so far the first and only issue that you have.

    I think that an honest price policy is naming the price and the conditions.

    Others let you buy a family size software package, i.e. you have to have x number of users. Could argue that you actually pay for two, three or four users, but I won't.

  3. Hi John,

    I think you may have misunderstood the concept of one PC = one license.

    You can install it on one PC, and if you decide to replace that PC, you can uninstall it from PC #1 and install it on PC #2.

    You just use the same downloaded installation file and the same serial number and the same activation code that you received via email.

    Your comment on the tutorials I'll ignore, as there isn't a tutorial on milling or turning a wine glass. Page 39 in the Introduction to DesignCAD 3D MAX talks about the Sweep function and this is illustrated with a wine goblet (quite a nice one actually in my opinion).

    Anyway the Introduction to DesignCAD 3D MAX is meant for new CAD users. So if you don't have any drawing experience at all, this will help you get started.

  4. #14
    Your wasting your time boys the Man's not listening.!! . . . . Any company that doesn't listen to it's User base doesn't respect it's Users so isn't worth investing time or money into, how much time/money is irrelevant.!!

  5. Hi Jazz,

    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Your wasting your time boys the Man's not listening.!! . . . . Any company that doesn't listen to it's User base doesn't respect it's Users so isn't worth investing time or money into, how much time/money is irrelevant.!!
    I don't think any of the above people are of our user base.

  6. Ok, I'm out...

    You don't know me and I don't know you, but I've always worked to save my clients money and time and as part of that TCO is key, price isn't the only factor. I have integrity and professionalism as an IT Consultant and I object to your generalisation, but I'm not going to get into debate. You've set out your stall, the market will vote with its feet... and its not about price, its about attitude and recognition of the way people want to work.

    Incidentally, and I'm making no comparisons about functionality because its not at the same level (yet), I'm using a package, Inard CAD Pro, on my Android tablet which costs 6 and does 95% of what I need and is by far and away the easiest 2D CAD package I've ever used. More to the point the author and I have had some really constructive discussions about functionality and he's been really responsive about adding new features.

    And for a few lines & a circle Powerpoint or Visio will suffice and is usually already present on many office PCs so your assertion is disingenuous to say the least. In fact I've rarely needed a true CAD package for most small jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Hi Irving,

    My experience with IT-consultants and internal IT-departments is that they must justify their existence and make life as easy for themselves as possible. This means that they can only recommend something that's expensive (and then they get points for knocking the price a bit), and IT-departments usually recommend, what they already got even for jobs that only require drawing a few lines and a circle. So quite often you have to invest not only the 10,000 for the software, but you also have to hire an expert to actually draw the lines and the circle.
    Last edited by irving2008; 23-10-2013 at 12:33 PM.

  7. Hi Irving,

    I should love to discuss functionality, which is actually, why I enrolled in this forum, but so far all I've had are moans about pricing, licensing and the fact that we don't do a printed manual.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Hi Jazz,



    I don't think any of the above people are of our user base.
    NO EXACTLY but they could have been and lots more besides who certainly won't after reading your unyielding and quite arrogant replays.!

    Forums are very powerful business tools in skilled hands, they can also be quite destructive to business and reputation in un-skilled hands and you Sir need to hone your skills.!!

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to JAZZCNC For This Useful Post:


  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic View Post
    Hi Jazz,



    I don't think any of the above people are of our user base.
    Sorry ????????????

    I paid good coin of the realm for the copy I had / have ?

    And OK so it was a goblet and not a glass, still a useless tutorial unless you are aiming the software at glass blowers.
    John S -

  11. Hi John,

    Quote Originally Posted by John S View Post
    Sorry ????????????

    I paid good coin of the realm for the copy I had / have ?

    And OK so it was a goblet and not a glass, still a useless tutorial unless you are aiming the software at glass blowers.
    You still have it, as I explained in an earlier post, but you're not using it, and it's not a question of whether it was a glass or a goblet. Page 39 of the Introduction to DesignCAD 3D MAX gives an illustration of the Sweep command as a wine goblet. There is no tutorial on neither milling nor turning a wine glass nor a goblet. That's all I'm saying.


    Hi Jazz,
    NO EXACTLY but they could have been and lots more besides who certainly won't after reading your unyielding and quite arrogant replays.!

    Forums are very powerful business tools in skilled hands, they can also be quite destructive to business and reputation in un-skilled hands and you Sir need to hone your skills.!!
    Well right now I feel very much ganged up upon by the old hands of this forum, so what do I do?

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