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  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Clive S View Post
    Well check here:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/West-Syste...item1e8ff2bb79 I know this is not a good place to buy it but they do ship to your country . Have you tried to buy it from the UK or perhaps tried a boat yard, also ask them why they can ship the 205 but not the 209. Wests is the best product and it gives you about a 10 hour cure. ..Clive
    The Greek supplier can ship me the 105 epoxy and the 205-206 hardener but he doesn’t import the 209 hardener.
    Other sites even from uk they cant ship (via air) any hardener. Find them

    http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...acks-12kg.aspx
    i think they are cheap at their prices but i emailed them and they answered

    "HI Unfortunately we do not stock this product abd cannot ship outside of the Uk due to hazardous content, you may be best to contact west system direct for nearest distributor. Sorry we could not assist with your enquiry . Kind rgds Martin"

    As searching i saw that some datasheet measure the viscosity at cps and others at mpa.s. I don’t know what is the difference as when i google search for a converter

    http://www.aqua-calc.com/convert/dyn...cond/start/165
    i see that they are equal


    I found a company CARBON MODS

    http://www.carbonmods.co.uk/products...arter-kit.aspx

    that sells its products through this site
    http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/

    At this site
    http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/prod...ion-resin.aspx

    i found an infusion epoxy resign
    here is the datasheet
    http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/down...sion-Resin.pdf

    From a first reading it seems to have ( according the numbers of the datasheet ) smaller combined viscosity (225 mpa.s) than 105+209 hardener resign (650 cps ) , also it has pot life 80-100 minutes (slow hardener ) smaller than 105+209 (40-50 minutes) , and the price is 18.42+vat pounds.
    I don’t know which product is better for our application.


    but when i go to the transport details page
    http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/dang...-shipping.aspx

    Greece is at the red list

    Thanks for your participation
    The creative adult, is the child who survived

  2. #152
    This is the stuff I used, worked fine.
    http://www.reactiveresins.com/syntac...poxyresins.pdf
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    This is the stuff I used, worked fine.
    http://www.reactiveresins.com/syntac...poxyresins.pdf
    Edyy, was it cheaper you said?




    Did you checked the link i provided you. For sure they ship, as i have it in my garage

    Here is another link, they ship also PS. deleted the last link, very expensive.


    Quote Originally Posted by ba99297 View Post

    From a first reading it seems to have ( according the numbers of the datasheet ) smaller combined viscosity (225 mpa.s) than 105+209 hardener resign (650 cps ) , also it has pot life 80-100 minutes (slow hardener ) smaller than 105+209 (40-50 minutes) , and the price is 18.42+vat pounds.
    I don’t know which product is better for our application.
    Its not only that. There are other things important for leveling the rails. The compression yeld, surface quality and precision.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 16-08-2014 at 01:05 AM.

  4. #154
    I am confused
    First of all they dont ship to Greece ( may be to other countries but not to Greece) any epoxy because it is dangerous
    The Greek supplyer doesn import the 209 hardener
    I find other epoxy systems but every one has different datasheet parameters
    For example west system says pot life of 100gr at 22 C, other says pot life 1lt at 25 C. How to compare?
    Also it is not clear what everybody mean by saying Pot life, gel time, working time. I call them . One says all the above are the same, other says they are not. I have not a way to compare.
    I find one Greek supplyer that has an australian product Megapoxy HX
    This product has 60 cps viscocity and working time according the greek site (english version ) datasheet 30 minutes


    http://www.megapoxy.gr/index.php?pN=...ProductID=6283
    and the datasheet here

    http://www.megapoxy.gr/images/pdf/Me...tion_%20En.pdf

    and according an australian site (english version ) datasheet

    http://www.permatech.com.au/tds/megapoxy_hx_tds.pdf 60 minutes.

    What i should believe?

    Also its compressive strength is bigger than west system (13778 PSI vs 12000 PSI )
    For sure viscocity is very low ( ten times smaller than west system) , but working time also


    Thanks for your time

    Vagelis
    The creative adult, is the child who survived

  5. #155
    wait a second!

    I am going to explode from epoxy knowledge these last days

    I am right here where you are with my next build . I need epoxy also, so i have done some additional research, locally, i mean. $$$$ i mean versus West System


    1. How many L or KG of mix you will need, add 30% at least, for errors or mistake in calculation.

    The channel for 20mm rail must be 40mm wide and 5mm thick

    Yesteday i read a lot of epoxy material and it seems that the minimum thickness must be 3mm at least -otherwise the forces will not spread. So what we do here at the forum 5mm is ok.

    2. lets see what compression strength epoxy we really need.

    Heavy duty build, like mine or yours.
    2x90mm Hiwin each side, separated at least 90mm each +50mm force spread approximately each side, that 20mm wide= ((2x90+90+2x50)x20)2=14.800 mm2= 148cm2

    12800psi to kg/cm2=843kg/cm2 , so we have 148cm2 x 843kg/cm2==124 764 kg . safety factor 125 tons :3= 40 ton gantry , It seems enough, yes?


    2. I am at the point of buying epoxy

    I found 8kg pack of Spanish epoxy that seems to fit the purpose for 140euro. I need half only. it has only 120kg per cm2 resistance, but even that is more than enough. I can spit it in half if enough for you and ship it to Greece via UPS for 20eur. I spoke personally with the guy that makes the epoxy and he told me it will be perfect for the purpose

    I am waiting to speak tomorrow with another company which has very similar epoxy to WS, and slightly cheaper per kg if to buy small packs.

    or i could buy more 209 hardener from UK, together with all i need for my build and ship it to you. i can ship up to 30kg for 20eur to you.

    So don't waste time with the epoxy, calculate what you need and i will help you.

    3. gell time is when the poxy becomes unworkable. Pot life is the same but only if you keep the mix in the pot, where it hardens faster than if spread on the rails. Thats why the confusion. the more epoxy you keep in one pot, the faster it hardens, hence they must state how many g or kg when saying gel time or pot life.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Boyan Silyavski For This Useful Post:


  7. #156
    Clive S's Avatar
    Lives in Marple   Stockport, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 10 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 2,309. Received thanks 403 times, giving thanks to others 35 times. Made a monetary donation to the upkeep of the community. Is a beta tester for Machinists Network features.
    The most important parameter is the viscosity because it need to flow like water to level out and the longer the cure time (wests is 10 - 20 hours) the better as it will have more chance to level out. Also let it cure for at least 5 days. ..Clive

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Clive S For This Useful Post:


  9. #157
    This is what it says about shipping where I got my stuff.
    http://www.reactiveresins.com/index.html

    "Shipping and handling
    Orders over 200 sterling will be delivered free to most of Europe including the following countries Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, Netherlands, Norway Poland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Turkey
    We use various couriers in order to get the best combination of service and value for money for our customers."

    Now I'm not saying you want 200 worth of epoxy but my point is they will ship it to Greece / Spain all you need do is contact them for a price.

    When you click to 'buy on line' it takes you here; http://www.resinstore.com/epoxy-packs.html
    The one I used was this, 'Syntac EPAFD Slow Cure Epoxy Resin Pack'
    Quote Originally Posted by silyavski View Post
    Edyy, was it cheaper you said?
    Yes it was cheaper than West Systems
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 27-08-2014 at 08:33 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  10. #158
    very interesting book and fast to read. http://nilsmalmgren.com/Laddas/Epoxy_handbook.pdf

    from the book:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    The one I used was this, 'Syntac EPAFD Slow Cure Epoxy Resin Pack'
    Yes it was cheaper than West Systems
    But didn't yours Sink Eddy.? . . . . No point being cheap if it's going to compress.!

  12. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    But didn't yours Sink Eddy.? . . . . No point being cheap if it's going to compress.!
    I agree there completely.

    Eddy, just reread your build thread. It seems that what saved you was that you tightened equally the screws. But nevertheless that was a disaster in my opinion. I would have returned the epoxy for complete refund, given that you followed all normal epoxy procedure: weight the mixture to the gram, mix carefully 5 minutes, pour in new container before applying, apply at correct temperature, dry at correct humidity and temperature.
    If you remember my thread, the WS epoxy could be filed just next day, though i waited a week. It was like snow flakes with excellent machine ability just next day.

    Of course i also made a mistake there. i should have covered the rails below with epoxy base, so it would glue better to the steel. i did not do it and the small pieces at the gantry legs unglued when drilling. I fixed it but still see this as serious mistake from my side.


    Just read at Spanish forum that the epoxy i was aiming for did not harden properly when the mix volume was very small - 10g. Thats another good reference if the epoxy is any good or crap... How it behaves when the mixture volume is very small. So its a "no go" for me and i will be ordering the West System today. After spending 5k for my machine i don't see a reason for saving 80euros.

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