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  1. #11
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 1,840. Received thanks 192 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    The specs for that motor are a bit vague, however I'm guessing it has a tach built in going by the fact tach details are listed on all the pages for that motor.

    To make them run closed loop using the PMDX, you'd need some form of driver that would close the loop and be controlled via step-dir.
    If you're not bothered about running the spindle fully closed loop, a simple step/dir to 0-10V converter combined with a suitable servo amplifier (one of those boards will be a servo amplifier, but you'd need to research exactly what kind of input it takes) will give you open loop speed control.
    Alternatively, you could just run the motor as a basic DC motor, using something like a KB driver board, which simply takes a 0-10V input and adjusts the output accordingly.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

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  3. #12
    thanks for the reply mc I have no experience with electronics what so ever.
    my limited understanding is for things like threading I want closed loop?
    should I be looking at something like this for the spindle motor
    DCser004# Dc servo motor driver, closed loop controller-in Motor Driver from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

    edited yes your right it seems they all have a built in tach,i managed to find an exploded drawing of one not quite identical,
    http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/Ac...tor_parts.html
    Last edited by deisel; 04-05-2014 at 04:31 PM.

  4. #13
    That driver is the right sort of thing, but the rated voltage of the motor is 140V, so you want one around that voltage. It's about 1.4kW. It looks like the big transformer might be supplying the motor - does the transformer say on it what the output voltage is? It might be supplied without a transformer... not sure.
    Last edited by Jonathan; 03-05-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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  6. #14
    thanks jon,
    yes the transformers feeding the motor via various other bits not sure what the are yet, but theres no info on the transformer output theres two conversion threads on the zone they use something called a bardac 1600i board in post 53 The Dyna Myte 3000 Project - Page 5 this fella says the output of his bardac is 80vdc and doesnt notice any reduction in speed.,
    I will aim to get the correct rated drive.. im still looking.
    edited I came across this 160v servo driver also sold on ebay Europe,any good?
    http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=636
    Last edited by deisel; 03-05-2014 at 07:37 PM.

  7. #15
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 1,840. Received thanks 192 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    If you're relying on Mach for threading, then you don't need closed loop. Mach only needs, and can only handle a single pulse per revolution, which it then uses to control the Z-axis, so the spindle itself doesn't have to run closed loop. The spindle just has to maintain a relatively constant speed, to ensure things remain in sync.

    If you are going to be using some form of external motion controller, then the spindle and feedback requirements vary.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

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  9. #16
    Thanks for explaining that m_c
    To anyone ,will this be sufficient running my spindle motor http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tchlink:top:en I would also use a braking circuit.
    spoke to the seller yesterday and says the drive will be about 140v output due to 10-12% power loss on the bridge of the drive

    But im unsure what determines a drive works with a brushed motor and not brushless and vice verser
    some state there for one or the other and others don't mention it, my motors brushed .
    Last edited by deisel; 04-05-2014 at 08:04 AM.

  10. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    If you're relying on Mach for threading, then you don't need closed loop. Mach only needs, and can only handle a single pulse per revolution, which it then uses to control the Z-axis, so the spindle itself doesn't have to run closed loop. The spindle just has to maintain a relatively constant speed, to ensure things remain in sync.
    One pulse per revolution is closed loop, just not a very good one! You don't need a position loop though, just speed. I'd have thought using an external driver with a reasonably high resolution encoder would be better since the driver will be able to do a much better job of holding the speed constant (and ensuring the average is exact) than Mach3 with one 1ppr.

    Quote Originally Posted by deisel View Post
    But im unsure what determines a drive works with a brushed motor and not brushless and vice verser
    some state there for one or the other and others don't mention it, my motors brushed .
    If they don't mention it anywhere, that's surprising, but you can always count the terminals and look at the labels. In general, four terminals means it's a stepper driver, three terminals (UVW) means it's a 3-phase brushless driver and two terminals will be a DC driver. There are rare exceptions.
    Last edited by Jonathan; 04-05-2014 at 12:09 PM.
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  12. #18
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 1,840. Received thanks 192 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    One pulse per revolution is closed loop, just not a very good one!
    It's not closed loop.
    To me closed loop would mean using that pulse to control the spindle, but it doesn't. It simply uses the pulse as a reference for syncing the Z-axis.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  13. #19
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 9 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 1,840. Received thanks 192 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by deisel View Post
    To anyone ,will this be sufficient running my spindle motor DG4S 16035 Positioning DC Servo Drive Mach3 CNC | eBay I would also use a braking circuit.
    spoke to the seller yesterday and says the drive will be about 140v output due to 10-12% power loss on the bridge of the drive

    But im unsure what determines a drive works with a brushed motor and not brushless and vice verser
    some state there for one or the other and others don't mention it, my motors brushed .
    That drive should work. However you need to ensure you have an incremental encoder, that outputs a quadrature signal (usually referenced as A & B outputs). You'll need to figure out eaxctly what the existing feedback device is, to see if it'll be any use.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  14. #20
    thanks again mc the encoders a HP heads-6310 021 a s. from what ive read it does use A & B outputs,id forgotten the schematics on page 1 so hopefully the pin info is in there

    edited heds 5000 and 6000 series encoders seem to be the same diagram,
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by deisel; 24-08-2014 at 03:16 PM.

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