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  1. #21
    First of all a big thanks for all the input, it has probably saved me from making many fu*k-ups.
    The redesign has now been simplified and is based around the PILZ PNOZ X9P relay and the highly regarded PMDX-126 board.
    This seems to have simplified the design as all the individual relays that needed to be hooked up together have been discarded. It has also provides additional features that may be useful such as machine hold.
    While individual components have increased in price, I believe the reduced the part count will compensate for this and the final cost will hopefully be in the same ballpark.
    I have attached pdf’s of the revised schematics for further comments, before I start digging down into the detail.
    Jim
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Control_Cabinet2_PMDX126 & X9P_Ar4.pdf   Control_Cabinet2_SPINDLE CONTROL_Ar4.pdf  

  2. #22
    Nice drawings Jim, here's what I see;

    1. Pin 6 of PMDX-107 should go to VFD ACN (ACM ?) (GRD) terminal.
    2. Why is there a switch in the PILZ terminal A1 supply ? it's not normal.
    3. Can the PILZ relay contacts handle the VFD supply current ?
    4. Can the PILZ relay contacts handle the 70V PSU input current ?
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    2. Why is there a switch in the PILZ terminal A1 supply ? it's not normal.
    Well that depends doesn't it.? . . . . It's normal for me.!!

    I often put control panels on the front of the machines and having this cut power to relay is a bit of safety so the relay can't power up when changing tools etc. 24V is Safer than running high voltage into machine and messing around turning main cabinet supply off.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 06-03-2014 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    Nice drawings Jim, here's what I see;

    1. Pin 6 of PMDX-107 should go to VFD ACN (ACM ?) (GRD) terminal.
    2. Why is there a switch in the PILZ terminal A1 supply ? it's not normal.
    3. Can the PILZ relay contacts handle the VFD supply current ?
    4. Can the PILZ relay contacts handle the 70V PSU input current ?
    Hi Eddy,
    1. I have gone through manual and agree so I have amended the design.
    2. Well Dean has responded to this, so I guess its a matter of personal choice.
    3 & 4. Now this is getting a bit deep for me, but if I am reading the Pilz documentation correct the safety contacts can handle 240VAC and 8 amps, but I stand to be corrected.

    Thanks for your help
    Jim

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Well that depends doesn't it.? . . . . It's normal for me.!!

    I often put control panels on the front of the machines and having this cut power to relay is a bit of safety so the relay can't power up when changing tools etc. 24V is Safer than running high voltage into machine and messing around turning main cabinet supply off.
    I'm not going there, do what you want, what I'll say is, it's not normal for the numerous industrial installations I've seen. 'Isolation and immobilisation' is a subject in itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTJim View Post
    Hi Eddy,
    3 & 4. Now this is getting a bit deep for me, but if I am reading the Pilz documentation correct the safety contacts can handle 240VAC and 8 amps, but I stand to be corrected.
    Thanks for your help
    Jim
    If the PILZ document says that and the VFD and PSU take less current then it sounds fine, the only issue I'd think about is the inductance of the 70v PSU transformer when the contacts open. This is why I used a separate contactor because it's cheaper to replace a worn out contactor than it is to replace the PILZ relay. Having said that I've just looked at your drawing and I can see the load is split over 4 separate contacts in the PILZ (2 in series then those in parallel with another 2 in series) so that might be okay provided they all open at the same time otherwise the first one to open gets to break the arc.
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 06-03-2014 at 09:23 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  6. #26
    I have included a soft start on the 70V power supply to control the inrush current so this should prevent any issues, shouldn't it?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GTJim View Post
    I have included a soft start on the 70V power supply to control the inrush current so this should prevent any issues, shouldn't it?
    It will for switching ON but I'm talking about switching OFF

    Read on page 1 under "Inductive Load"

    http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/electricalratings.pdf

    It's not so bad that we are talking about AC where the voltage crosses zero at 50Hz so it helps extinguish the arc, unlike DC. I've had 'belts' off both and I can tell you it's easier to let go of AC than DC
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 06-03-2014 at 09:53 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  8. #28
    Jim, that's a very nice schematic you've drawn.

    I've just been studying it as you're using very similar components to my panel.

    As you're using the second parallel port anyway (M-Hold on K input), it might be worth considering using the 'H' input on J11 for your touch plate rather then pin 9 on J12.

    If at a later date you decide to add a digitising probe then you can use pin 9 on J12 for that and enable the 'probe merged inputs mode' on the PMDX-126.

    No big deal, just something i've done as I can see myself adding a touch probe at some point.

    Si.

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  10. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    I'm not going there, do what you want, what I'll say is, it's not normal for the numerous industrial installations I've seen. 'Isolation and immobilisation' is a subject in itself.
    But that's just it Eddycurrent where not in industrial application we are DIY application and your just creating worries for people when they need not worrie.!!

    I've had a second hand pilz relay on my machine for 3yrs now along with the On/Off switch inline with 24V switching 75v without any issues and before coming to me I'm pretty sure it had done plenty of work so I'm sure it will be fine Jim.

  11. #30
    Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
    I find this subject dificult as I'm more mechanical biased but have enjoyed the challange.
    I'll make Si's amendment to the schematic and lets hope its somewhere near so I can look at the detail as thats bothering me.
    More questions to come. Lol
    Jim

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