Thread: Gecko G540 or?

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  1. #21
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 4 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 1,000. Received thanks 170 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Bad news is that if you want to use twin motors on X (or even if you want to allow for upgrading to two motors in the future), then as far as I can see you need the very expensive CS Labs board, the IP-S, not the IP-M. Have I understood this correctly? The ESS seems to be a reasonable choice - as long as you never need manufacturer support, and the PLCM kit is great if you read Russian! Not sure of the status of the E4, and the E3 needs a BOB, as does the ESS. This all makes choice of a driver trivial by comparison...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Neale View Post
    Bad news is that if you want to use twin motors on X (or even if you want to allow for upgrading to two motors in the future), then as far as I can see you need the very expensive CS Labs board, the IP-S, not the IP-M. Have I understood this correctly?
    Yes your correct Neale. For slaved Axis you need the IP-S version which appears expensive but for what you get it's really not and it's truely amazing bit of kit for the money. Nothing comes close to what it offers or quality in this price bracket.

    That said Yes for General DIY it's on the expensive side and the others are more than good enough at this level.
    The ESS is OK except Warp9 are rubbish with support.!! .. . Not a little rubbish but TOTAL CRAP.
    Purelogic who make the PLCM are actually very good at support and will sort any issues you may have in very short period of time really.

    This Software support shouldn't be trivilised or under valued really as these device all run off Plug-in software inside Mach3 and it's the quality of the plug-in that makes or breaks these devices. So if you have any troubles or conflicts then being able to get software support is priceless.
    The CS labs software and support is excellent with very few bugs and if they are any or Mach3 changes breaking the plug-in which often happens, then they get resolved and dealt with very quickly. They will work one on one with you get conflicts resolved
    Pure logic PLCM are ok but not the same quality plug-ins or support but still ok and will work with you.
    Warp9 on the other hand won't lift a finger unless half the ESS users in the world jump up n down screaming and even then take 2yrs to do it.!!

    The BOB is often the weak link used with most Motion controls and unless you use a decent BOB then really I don't see the point.! It's like having 1000HP engine running on knackerd tyres.! . . . Pointless if you can't get the power down.!!
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 24-10-2014 at 10:35 PM.

  3. #23
    Building the machine first and then complete it with the electronics is really the most logical way to go and i am gonna take the advice and do so also.
    It was my original thought but i have been thinking of this for a long time and got a little carried away and just wanted to by everything that i need fast...

    Its easy to get carried away if you want the best parts and start reading and learning. Ive learned a lot only from this thread and i thankyou for it.
    For example, low inductance motors, Ethernet connected motion control board, digital high voltage drivers that must be working well with the data of the steppers and many other things...

    Im still a bit confused about the motion control detail though. I can se why people like the Gecko G540 kit as it seems like an overall mid-level good compromise.

    I know that what Im about to ask is a topic for a whole new thread but im in the market for a small lathe. Im gonna use it for the cnc build.
    The budget is about 5-700 GBP and Im counting on some work and money above that to make it perform better. Ive been Reading about the Sieg C3 super, Warco and the Amadeal lathes. They seem pretty much the same but brushless motor and high weight is +....
    Considering the above, which one? ��

  4. #24
    Sorry for changing the subject back and fourth, its just me but a question regarding the Electronics came to mind...
    In my world its easy just to overdimension for example the steppers and the motors so that they should be able to cope with whatever i through at it.
    Someone once told me that it isnt so and that the best thing is if the performance of the machine is optimised to what you should use it for... Which is right?

  5. #25
    The optimum range of anything is where it operates in the central linear region of it's performance graph. If you oversize then it's not working hard and is in the lower non linear region of the graph, if you undersize it will work at the upper non linear region of the graph.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    The optimum range of anything is where it operates in the central linear region of it's performance graph. If you oversize then it's not working hard and is in the lower non linear region of the graph, if you undersize it will work at the upper non linear region of the graph.
    Yes but a Porsche 991 works damn well to go shopping with. Question is, are there any disadvantages doing light work with a muscular cnc... Someone once told me so but i cant remember why...

  7. #27
    I can imagine that if things are oversized they will use more energy to overcome their own inertia and losses than the energy used for light cutting. If this is the case I would expect the machine to be, 'not in control'.
    A bit like trying to using a 50kg computer mouse for fast game playing.
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 25-10-2014 at 07:47 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  8. #28
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 3 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 508. Received thanks 68 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    In my world its easy just to overdimension for example the steppers and the motors so that they should be able to cope with whatever i through at it.
    .........................................Question is, are there any disadvantages doing light work with a muscular cnc
    Adding larger motors can easily cause your machine to move slower, even though it may have twice the power at slower speeds.
    Generally, the bigger the stepper, the slower it's capable of spinning.
    Steppers are rated at their holding torque, when they are not spinning. The faster they spin, the less torque they have. With larger motors, the torque falls off more rapidly. If you gear them to spin slower, where they have more power, then you give up resolution.
    I've seen cases where people have purchased large, inexpensive motors on Ebay. These motors are often too slow to get out of there own way. In most cases, these same people end up buying new, smaller motors. I've seen motors 1/4 the size make the machine 4-5x faster.

    The best performing stepper motors will always be the smallest ones that meet your requirements. You should be choosing motors based on performance requirements.
    Gerry
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by JW1977 View Post
    Im still a bit confused about the motion control detail though. I can se why people like the Gecko G540 kit as it seems like an overall mid-level good compromise.
    Ok well first the G540 isn't a motion control card at all, it's just 4 drives combined with a BOB. The drives are limiting regards motor amps and while they are nicely made they can't match the AM882 in performance terms. I've used both and I wouldn't buy another that's all I'll say.!

    Quote Originally Posted by JW1977 View Post
    Yes but a Porsche 991 works damn well to go shopping with. Question is, are there any disadvantages doing light work with a muscular cnc... Someone once told me so but i cant remember why...
    For a family of one maybe but try taking 4 kids and all the baggage that goes with them.!! You need a Porsche Cayenne for lugging kids and baggage around.

    Think of the CNC machine as either Porsche 991 when optimised giving great performance at what it does best but limiting at other things.! OR . . Cayenne is still a Porsche and supposedly performance vehicle which will get your there with all your baggage and kids safely but not very excititng and rubbish around the nurburgring.!!
    The Cayenne is the one with the Big engine not the 991. It's oversized and under performs because it's optimised for ever lugging kids around. This comes at a cost in both performance and Expense.? Your paying for performance vehicle which fails to deliver.!

    The tuned and optimised porsche 991 does ONE job well and thats going fast. It's limited at moving kids but was never designed for that purpose so wrong to expect it too.

    Now this gets more complicated with CNC due to way steppers work. Large steppers bring an all new set of problems which to get performance from requires expensive drives and motors.
    This is why it's best to target the machine use and design to that with a generous safety margin and nothing more. More is less really is true when it comes to steppers. Anything above the safety margin is just wasted money.!

  10. #30
    Ok, i understand... Ive spent the last days designing the gantry and i will soon order the parts.
    Thanks again for all the input. Ill be back 4 sure!

    Btw and of topic.
    I testdrove the new 991 Carrera S a couple of weeks ago. Bl... H... it was nice!

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