Thread: Beastie

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  1. #1
    Hi,

    now that i have build one and meanwhile building my big beast , couldn't help but start to design my next project.


    Warning:
    This one is quite ambitious. It is meant to be my first more serious commercial product in the CNC world, including the plans, so let be known from the beginning. While maybe i will not sell the plans themselves, i will sell them together with detailed manual step by step how to DIY. The end result will be sold as a kit or finished, may be even some Kickstarter campaign to see if there is any interest. So be warned. Of course for fellow forum members the plans will be for free.

    If you don't agree, don't post in the thread. I will use and abuse your ideas . Though help, critique and ideas will be greatly appreciated.



    Background:
    First let me tell you i am tired of [noh-mad]s, 3040, 4060, funny Kickstarter campains, chinese electronic and mechanical jokes, ugly plans at ebay and similar overpriced crap . I hope you agree with me here.



    Now the purpose of Beastie:
    I believe is time to do something about all the bad stuff floating around. So i decided to sit down and design something that will kill any thoughts of buying the crap. Like an antivirus of a kind .


    The Idea
    -to be not so much more expensive than the crap
    -in kit to be equal price to the crap
    -to be so rigid to accept from 0.8kw to 3kw spindle / why not even a small mill spindle/

    The way to do it:
    The design. This is the key..I believe it could be done. So let me explain some points here.

    -Working area wide X300mm and Z150mm. The length Y will be 300mm. The machine will be designed so that it could be easily scaled up to 400mm wide and 600mm long.
    The key here is not be working are hungry but to make all things properly. Other very interesting objective of mine is to design in CAM like fully parametric solid model. Which means sb says, hey i need 300x400x160 and i for a minute generate him the detailed drawing.

    -all alu plates will be 2D cut, faces for rails milled for easy alignment. No holes or bolts on the thin sides, 2 plates will be mounted together via square bar inside. This is one of the 2 most important parts. No flipping aluminum sheets, drill, profile, pocket where necessary and that's all. The second most important idea is that this will lead to fast assembly. Thats the purpose-machine to be fully assembled from scratch for a day. So no steel, no paint and so there.

    The Gantry
    Now isn't this important. The gantry will be fixed. I gave a lot of thought and that's the proper way i believe to do it. Not only this but is made from 20mm ali plate that forms a box with another plates, for now 6mm, ribs will be fixed where necessary. When i do the final calcs will see what is the price difference for making all from 20mm stuff and will decide then. For now thats how would be.

    The electronics
    Not many doubts here almost 100% the Leadshine MX660 - Three Axis Digital Microstepping Driver all in one
    and as an upgrade CSMIO/IP-M 4-axis Ethernet Motion Controller with Leadshine AM822 or similar. Motors 3nm, from Zapp.
    Now here i have a question. If more axis are needed couldn't we just fit one more Leadshine MX660?

    Mechanics
    Hiwin 20, the long HA blocks, 1605, 1610 screws and may be even geared for better resolution for ultra fine jobs, cause i don't see how this small size will develop speeds


    So thats all for now. I am starting from sketch drawings to develop them little by little in detail.

    The price
    I still have no exact idea, but i hope that in kit form it will result in build for less or around 1500euro. Or at least that's the idea. Now tell me what you think. This is not cheap cheap but hey, we are talking a bout quality machine here.


    Dimensions:
    The idea is foot print of no more than 600x600mm and 600mm high for 300x300x150mm working area. Thats a challenge also but i am almost there.

    The Z plate
    250x250 for now and i believe its a minimum but minimum where still is maximum strong. the bearing spread and footprint i mean, having in mind that we are talking here HA bearings, the long ones 95mm each

    Other
    Now,here is the deal. the electronics will be below the machine or in the gantry or at both places. And one main idea is also the gantry and sides and base to be epoxy fill ready, sand fill ready. So i will spend a lot of thought here. One thing is clear. The electronics will be inside somehow. My machine is like this and there is no problem. Air filter and ventilator will be essential. i know Dean will be the first to say that this is not right. But it must be.


    Some pictures where i am now, as i said still in sketch form:
    On picture 5 you can see in yellow all the plates that are 20mm thick. All rest is 6mm. For now.



    The working area for now 300x300x150, the gantry is 200mm deep x 600mm wide, the gantry legs form 140x200mm each




    Now without the working area shown




    The motor moving the table will be down inside






    the 20mm plates in yellow. All rest 6mm for now untill i do the last calcs when the design is finished. Anyway, structurally there will be no problem.

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    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 30-11-2014 at 02:38 AM.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  2. #2
    Now here i have a question. If more axis are needed couldn't we just fit one more Leadshine MX660?
    That might be a waste because you would be adding another 3 axis and another spindle control etc. Although it is a nice unit and easy to setup, I used one on an x3 mill conversion. ..Clive

  3. #3
    Does the Z plate really have to be that wide ?
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by EddyCurrent View Post
    Does the Z plate really have to be that wide ?
    Depends. I want to be able to fit even 80-100mm OD spindle, not only the 0.8kw which is 65 mm. But its all together. Not only the Z. Depends what Z design will use, depends on how the electronics will fit inside.


    But i am glad Eddie, that your first question was about the Z, that means that may be you see all that doable.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  5. #5
    Silyavki, I like your idea and concept drawing and I think there will be a market for an affordable small machine that's capable of some real work. It might be difficult to do something like that on a budget looking at those big alu parts. You might consider using something more affordable for some of the large parts e.g. instead of using solid 20mm plate use two 2mm or 3mm plates epoxied to a 20mm birch ply or even mdf core. A bit more expensive but maybe bamboo ply for core? Make a piece like that and try bending it, you will be surprised how stiff it is. The laminated approach does however complicate some things because you do not have a solid core to tap holes etc but I guess there are good plans to make it work e.g. bolts right true or alu inserts in the wood core were thru holes is not feasible.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by
    [B
    The price
    [/B]I still have no exact idea, but i hope that in kit form it will result in build for less or around 1500euro. Or at least that's the idea. Now tell me what you think. This is not cheap cheap but hey, we are talking a bout quality machine here.
    At first sight seems under estimated with this graded element.
    I have updated my TBI calculation to this set up to rough comparison and think only Hiwin with adding factory made bearing will reach about the 1K EUR.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #7
    No bamboo will be harmed in the making of that machine.

    One of the key point as i said is the design, so one of the jobs will be to make all small alu parts from the cut offs of the other parts. Even if i have to spend a month designing this.
    Plus - remember, its only a sketch. It could be lightened where possible and necessary. If deemed worth.


    I have not done the calc about the Hiwins and the ball screws. But i believe all the Hiwin will be around ~500$ and the ball screws around 250$ +200$ shipping.



    But now its not the moment to be bothered about this or it will never happen. We know how not to do it. Lets think a way how to do it. At the end when all is clear corners then will be cut.

    example:
    Say a kick starter campaign and 50 people buy it. Then fifty kits will be totally different price. Now say that i share container, say that .... There are possibilities when the idea is perfectly clear.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by silyavski View Post
    No bamboo will be harmed in the making of that machine.


    Just throwing ideas in; is there any mileage in this Z plate design ? http://www.cambam.co.uk/forum/index....cseen#msg32687
    At the very least I'm thinking it could be useful as a method of spindle mounting, making it easy to swap spindles or maybe swap to a laser head, etc.
    Last edited by EddyCurrent; 30-11-2014 at 10:23 PM.
    Spelling mistakes are not intentional, I only seem to see them some time after I've posted

  9. #9
    Great stuff!!! I tried to get something going as a project some time ago, but did not manage to get much interest from the site. It needed someone very experienced to run the project and you seem to have all the necessary skills.Fixed gantry is a good way to build a small rigid machine, but I personally would have liked to see the basis machine with a 600mm x 400mm working area. Anyway I wish you the very best of luck with this venture, and look forward to hearing more. Kickstarter sounds a good idea - who knows, I may even be a customer (I seem to collect cnc machines). G.

  10. #10
    mekanik's Avatar
    Lives in Barrow in Furness, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 14 Hours Ago Has been a member for 7-8 years. Has a total post count of 552. Received thanks 63 times, giving thanks to others 68 times.
    It's great that you have found the time to look into this, we are frequently asked if there are any decent kits available and have not been able to offer any really decent option, with your attention to detail i am sure this will be a good solid machine, have to agree with Geoffrey i think the larger option would be better,my only concern is the cost of all the 20mm plate.
    Regards
    Mike

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