Adding 3D printer ability to my CNC / advice needed please

**dudz** · 31-12-2014

I know not alot about 3D printing hardware. I am going to be buying my controller from this site https://cnc2printer3d.wordpress.com/

Do I use thermistor or thermocouple type ??

I would appreciate some help on what hardware to get. I am currently putting a 4th axis on my CNC for the extruder. But I have no clue what extruder or other hardware to get.

My CNC has a cutting table size of X = 500 Y= 300 Z = 110mm
I am using M542 Motor Drivers

**Boyan Silyavski** · 31-12-2014

i was investigating the same thing last week.

It depends from the $$ you wish to spend. Single head or double head. Note that double does not mean that it will be double fast, the good thing is that you can use support and then dissolve it, while with the single head you have to print the support for overhang elements from the same plastic.

From all this investigation i went to this conclusion:

-Hotends:
E3D-v6 HotEnd or Prometheus Hot End

i personally think that the prometheus is the better choice here

-Extruders:

One of the Bulldog extruders or one of the Goliat extruders coupled with:

-geared /planetary 5:1 or more/ nema 17 motor + the gear type like at the Goliat extruders web+ cheap micro stepper driver for 3 d printing

or

-nema 23 motor if you have the driver and make the extruder . take care what motor fits the exruders you buy

From the boards you suggest i will no doubt buy the thermocouple one cause i like to see exact temperatures on a display. Another thing is to search for PID temperature controller on ebay + thermocouple, you will need also cartridge heater. All here depends what voltage you want to drive all, what hot end and what fits there. The heater and the motor should not be driven from same supply.

So to resume: you need PID temp controller, thermocouple, heating element ~40-50w, PSU for the heating element, PSU for the stepper driver, stepper driver, geared stepper motor , Hot end, Extruder

Hope that will save you some time investigating. yes, there are cheaper around, but it needs to be reliable, or so the guys say. I dont want to spend my time cleaning nozzles

**dudz** · 31-12-2014

Thanks silvavski, that's alot of help.

I am confused about the heated bed platform. I saw these on ebay but they are the thermistor type : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3213363497...84.m1436.l2649

I would like to buy a complete bed as I cant be bothered to build one.
Around 200mm x 200mm or larger. My CNC PSU is 24v , so I suppose I will stick with 24V to power everything. (even if I need additional PSU's)

Based on your info. I would probably go for the Thermocouple PID. The the prometheus hot end. The better of the extruders (whichever that one is ?)
I guess I can use another M542 Motor Driver for the 3D printing ? and use my PSU that is powering the other 3x M542's.

**Boyan Silyavski** · 31-12-2014

Originally Posted by dudz

I am confused about the heated bed platform. I saw these on ebay but they are the thermistor type : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3213363497...84.m1436.l2649

It doesn't matter. If you buy the thermocouple controller it has input for 2 thermocouples , so just add /screw, stick or whatever/ the second thermocouple to the bed

Originally Posted by dudz

The better of the extruders (whichever that one is ?)

The bulldog XL already comes with the reduction motor so it seems better choice.

The setup i am suggesting seems will cope with all materials possible and i have heard only good things for the separate parts. However to be sure just ask before purchase is the prometheus will fit the bulldog.

Also check what they have at the bulldog site , to save on shipping, seems they have almost everything. Seems their hexagon hot end is also a good choice. http://forums.robo3dprinter.com/inde...-hot-end.1888/

This is the original seller web but in USA .

Some dimensiones and details. there is a good thing that it can be mirror mounted .

What i have not decided is bowen or direct setup/ extruder at the back of the machine or on the Z/

**dudz** · 01-01-2015

On the heated bed from the link above it contains a heating element that produces 144W.
Would I have to put the thermocouple into the underneath of the bed ?

Once I understand everything, I am planning to mount it all on the Z plate. I have enough room I think, If I slide my spindle out of the clamp to mount it all. Ofcourse I am not even sure how all the printing hardware mounts together yet

**dudz** · 02-01-2015

Cost of all parts to put 3D printing ability on my cnc, around 530 euros plus connectors / time / waiting for parts and shipping costs

Cost of a He3D RepRap Prusa i3 - 3D Printer Kit With LCD around 370 euros

Is it worth the extra cost ??

**Boyan Silyavski** · 02-01-2015

How did you calculate that 530 euros? Double head setup? 1 head setup is around 250 shipped to you. Look below. I suggest powering the bed and the hot end 220V via cheap ceramic elements the right size ~5 euro at ebay and using separate cheap PID control, look 2nd snip below. Thats much cheaper than dedicated board which needs 12VDc or 24VDC. The only thing thats left from my calc is the driver.

But you are absolutely right, 2 head setup will be that money. The suggested setup we were speaking above is Top notch, full metal heads and reliable extruders. I believe, yes its worth it if you will use it.

My line of thought is this. If you prototype or produce something with strange shape from plastic, it would pay on the second job. Imagine making something bulky from solid plastic, wow, it will be very expensive. Imagine then making it where necessary and only surface machine it later. Thats where the 3d printing will shine, though most of the guys are unaware of that cause they don't have CNC routers.

But if you want to play around and make a couple of parts, just prepare 2 head setup but buy one head, so if you need later just buy the second head.

**dudz** · 02-01-2015

No single.
Well that's certainly cheaper than what i looked at thanks.

The driver I am looking at is around 29 pounds, and I have to get a 4 axis Bob as mine is a 3 axis (has to be USB controlled 200khz as I have no printer port = 65 pounds)
To get a double head setup.....buy two extruders and 2x nozzles ??

I guess the bed on ebay is "slightly better" as it comes complete, but then there is an added post charge. Does nobody make larger heated beds ? I'd like one the same size as my cutting bed 500x300

Apart from all the parts above and a custom made Z plate adapter for all of it, is there any other hardware needed (apart from cable/connectors) ?

**dudz** · 02-01-2015

I wonder if these are any good

Extruder double ; http://sunhokeytech.en.alibaba.com/product/1961767180-222203505/Galvanic_couple_dual_extruder_3d_printer.html

http://ly3dtech.en.alibaba.com/product/1914798959-220596218/Reprap_3D_Printser_used_Heatbed_MK2a_300mm.html

**Boyan Silyavski** · 02-01-2015

yeah, the bed you can get from aliexpress . Here are the guys that actually make them , so they can make one for your exact machine but first check cause they have many sizes

I would rather start with only 1 good extruder and hot end than 2 bad ones. And build piece by piece the system if i dont have the cash to buy it right now.
I know its hard but you have to take the bullet

if you want to sleep well in the future.

The better the system the better will look the final product and more precise.