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  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopey View Post

    Has anyone come across these and have an opinion on them?
    C`mon, Plastic, unspecified plastic panel at that, this makes MDF look like the choice of the professsionals...

    The row of HT bolts along the short axis of the bed, what exactly are they doing? its not resisting forces created by the machine.

    Did the `maker` get a cheap deal on lead screws that were slightly too short?

    Hopefully supplied model has all 4 bolts on the spindle collar.

    Seriously, as a learning beginner even I can spot the severe limitations of something like that, engraving chocolate , thats about as far as your going , and even then don`t expect repeatability.

    If you want to get started why not the metal frame that the plastic abomination is copied from

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-ROUTER...-/260922676304

    It will actually cut small pieces in things harder than chocolate.

    Thing, as Jazz says, that takes longest to learn is the software on the CAD/CAM side, getting from the idea on the screen to getting the machine to start where you expected and cut the item out.

    For me a Chinese 3040 has been worth the price of entry as a `trainer` along with lurking around here and the zone.

  2. #12
    While most round these parts, enjoy the thrill of the chase (spec'ing, designing, scouring the net for the best price, arguing the toss etc)...others are time poor...or in my case, I just plain suck using hand tools! (young children wince when they see the results of my efforts - hot glue features a lot in my world)

    I built my first CNC machine from discarded scaffolding pipe & old industrial type dot matrix printer parts (I kid you not, inspired by the this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drMZqmyXQc), go on have a laugh at my expense - http://postimg.org/image/wc413rthl/ (look at the frame - scaffolding!)..... Of course, it was terrible ....engraving warm chocolate would have been my dream! (it did actually engrave pcbs ...but very large track PCBs!) But I learnt a lot & (in retrospect) it was sort of fun.

    I decided I needed more accuracy, and since that could not be obtained by a bloke of my ineptitude, I ponied up for one of these...

    http://www.ogowell.com/images/CNC%20...her-2117-A.jpg

    ...it was dinky, used bog standard threaded rod - erhm not not good for pcbs...too much of the old backlash (there's a theme here & up until now, it goes roughly "I'm firkin' clueless me")

    So I stacked my hand & waited, and waited....& then struck on a secondhand machine on ebay identical to this...

    http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/127...il_RS_3020.jpg (moving table design...pretty rare on Ebay - it also came fitted with homing switches, which is a bonus for repeat-ability...cos frankly they're a pain to fit)

    ...& do you know what? It's good (the spec is reasonable, it's rigid, I bought a cnc-usb card...& have never looked back).

    Sure it'll not mill steel, even ali is going to be a bit of a stretch, but for my needs (acrylic & pcbs) it's excellent ...better still it only cost me 500 .....I don't know how much you value your time, but if I had my time over again, I'd not have ever bothered wasting hours, upon hours (my mind boggles at how much time I spent on reading about all the ingredients needed), trying to spec/build my own....and even if I had, it would never have met the expectations of this lot!

    So my top tip is *unless* you are going to make this a lifestyle choice, just pony up for a decent secondhand one (or pay a forum regular to build you one!)

    Horses for courses ...

    (for what it's worth, I think there's a gap in the market for someone to import chinese machines, address their weak points (normally the electronics) & re-sell them with english support....clearly stating their limitations ...there are plenty of folks who want to buy such machines, but are left to wing it solo trying to sort all the associated problems - not ideal, when you're clueless due to being a noob)
    Last edited by HankMcSpank; 09-05-2015 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by HankMcSpank View Post


    (for what it's worth, I think there's a gap in the market for someone to import chinese machines, address their weak points (normally the electronics) & re-sell them with english support....clearly stating their limitations ...there are plenty of folks who want to buy such machines, but are left to wing it solo trying to sort all the associated problems - not ideal, when you're clueless due to being a noob)
    I have thought of that many times. I have some near future aspirations about building and/or selling small commercial machines, that's why i have "meditated" a lot on importing versus building. Its a big NO for me.
    Cause its not the only the problem they have. Its true i could not beat Chinese offering for the same money the same quantity of surfaced steel, big vacuum tables and similar stuff. But from what i have seen they have other inherent mistakes integrated in them, some important details overlooked and so on.
    So i can and will make 10 times more useful machine in real life than a crappy Chinese router.

    So any machine that sb makes here at the forum, using the advice of more experienced members and if he does not cut corners will be far better than ready made in China.


    I don't want to insult any body here personally but i believe many people here, at other forums and generally call "machines" something which i openly call "crap".
    For me anything less than using square supported rails is crap. Not because of what rails is using but because of the constant desire of some people to overrate and sell you something that could not really do precisely the job its stated to do and that type of people usually don't use square supported rails :-).

    So for me crap is if you say that machine does aluminum and it could not do, to say its precision and its not and so on...
    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 10-05-2015 at 08:11 AM.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  4. #14
    To be clear ...what I'm saying is that not everyone wants to mill steel, or even mill aluminium ( plenty of folk just want to mill acrylic, wood or make pcbs etc.)

    Also not everyone wants to make this a lifestyle (most come to the genre because they need a CNC machine, not just wanting to fill a bit of time in)

    Therefore if your CNC needs are modest... I'm just saying that buying a reasonably spec'ed secondhand machine is a viable option ....I'm doing fine pitch SMD pcbs & have zero accuracy problems - but then again don't ask me to mill a aluminium spindle bracket (even though my machine probably could - slowly!) .... I didn't buy my machine for that.

    Like I say...it depends on what your ultimate goal is......new users coming to the forum might get deflated at the constant barrage of diss'ing of anything but the most highly spec'ed of machines. Coming back to the first video that inspired me about the possibilities of a simple CNC machine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6drMZqmyXQc ) .....of course, it a very very basic machine, but if you're only after very very basic pcb, it may be the gateway to getting into CNC'ing (i.e. where a person - when faced with the cost of going 'pucka' - might have walked away otherwise)

    One man's 'crap' is another man's 'perfection' ...we're all different, with different levels of expectations, budgets & timeframes.

    the CNC machine you buy as your first machine, needn't be 'for life' ...there's an incredibly healthy market for secondhand machines, so the losses incurred by buying secondhand & then selling on secondhand are minimal....if I had my time again, I'd have bypassed all the heartache & just bought one.
    Last edited by HankMcSpank; 10-05-2015 at 12:31 PM.

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  6. #15
    Hi guys,

    does anyone know about this machine, is it

    http://www.tool-net.co.uk/p-398176/t...tV8aAqNU8P8HAQ

    thanks
    Last edited by Dero23; 19-05-2015 at 06:31 PM. Reason: mistake

  7. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HankMcSpank View Post
    if I had my time again, I'd have bypassed all the heartache & just bought one.[/COLOR]
    The reason you had heartache in the first place is due to buying crap and penny pinching.!! . . . Simple truth is that if you want a decent machine it costs a certain amount of money to do it right. Trying to build on the cheap is false economy with same outcome every time.!! . . . Heartache.

  8. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dero23 View Post
    Hi guys,

    does anyone know about this machine, is it aw4-smart?

    http://www.gumtree.com/p/hobbies-col...fer/1116742107

    thanks
    Same rubbish as OP offered up so just read what's been posted to see what's thought about it.!!

  9. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dero23 View Post
    Hi guys,

    does anyone know about this machine, is it aw4-smart?

    http://www.gumtree.com/p/hobbies-col...fer/1116742107

    thanks
    That's a lot of money for a basic (poorly spec'ed) machine...either the cost of CNC machines has shot up since I last was i the market, or the seller is chancing his luck. To give you an example, I paid 500 for a secondhand model identical to this...



    ...proper ballscrews (vs. threaded rod) ...larger milling area (30 x 20), chunky 16mm aluminium side profiles etc.

    You can likely build one for less, but the irony is you need a CNC machine to build one effectively (it's a conundrum like "how does the snow plough driver get to work"?)
    Last edited by HankMcSpank; 18-05-2015 at 11:45 PM.

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by HankMcSpank View Post
    That's a lot of money for a basic (poorly spec'ed) machine...either the cost of CNC machines has shot up since I last was i the market, or the seller is chancing his luck. To give you an example, I paid 500 for a secondhand model identical to this...
    ...proper ballscrews (vs. threaded rod) ...larger milling area (30 x 20), chunky 16mm aluminium side profiles etc.
    Well you must have been nuts to pay 500 for second hand machine that is poorly designed and uses cheap nasty round rail. Also 16mm aluminium is far from chunky and whats the point if those relatively flimsy 16mm sides are attached with 5mm aluminium angle.!!!

    Come on people open your eyes and start looking at how these pieces of Crap are thrown together. They may be cheap but so is dog shit and thats about all they are fit to cut.!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HankMcSpank View Post
    You can likely build one for less, but the irony is you need a CNC machine to build one effectively (it's a conundrum like "how does the snow plough driver get to work"?)
    By using is head and buying something properly suited to the job of getting him to is job.!. . . .A snowmobile.!!! . . . . .

    So working on your conclusions how was the first CNC machine built then.!!!. . . . You don't need CNC machine to build a CNC. Just a good design and some patience, along with a few appropriate tools and skills to use them.
    It's not rocket science, neither is it for dummys. It just needs a good dose of common sense along with the patience and desire to make it happen.!. . . . Oh and not being a unrealistic tight arse.!!

  11. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Well you must have been nuts to pay 500 for second hand machine that is poorly designed and uses cheap nasty round rail. Also 16mm aluminium is far from chunky and whats the point if those relatively flimsy 16mm sides are attached with 5mm aluminium angle.!!!
    You're right, instead I should have spent 3 years of evenings spec'ing sourcing & building. Some of the self build threads on here extend back to when Elvis could still visit the toilet without issue. Show me anywhere on the planet (webpage) you can buy a new machine with a similar spec.

    I think you are still missing the point...ok, so you eat sleep breathe CNC machines, some folks just want to mill a pcb or a bit of acylic (it's akin to someone going into a car showroom asking about a ford fiesta for the school run & the salesman saying "pah, that thing won't carry girders, what you need is this Hummer")..& some folks don't want to spend yonks stroking their chin with a furrowed brow....I still reckon buying secondhand is viable - i.e. buy a modest secondhand cnc machine for 500...use it, sell it for 500....cost of ownership = 0 (re the machine I bought ...it's the most cost effective 500 I'll ever spend & for it's purpose - and as it whirrs its merry little way milling a pcb out, not once have I thought "Damn, if only I'd listened to those on mycncuk")

    It was with a wry smile that I typed that you need a cnc machine to make a cnc machine (because even if that were solely the case, you'd likely need a bigger machine than the cnc you were making!)... but if you suck at engineering, it certainly eliminates the inaccuracies (holes slightly misplaced anyone?)

    I'm a bit of a guitar buff...but I don't hang around on guitar forums insisting that all newcomers buy a parker if a yamaha pacifica is perfectly fine for their immediate needs... indeed it's more likely that I'd suggest buying a secondhand yamaha pacifica.....just sayin' (perhaps the CNC genre around these parts is a bit like a career in deep sea diving ...you start at the top & work your way down?)
    Last edited by HankMcSpank; 19-05-2015 at 09:32 AM.

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