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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Where he does not have experience is in the area of the CS Labs IP-A / S systems. This is where you / Gary come into the picture :-)

    Ill post some pics a bit later once I have drawn them of what I believe the connectivity might be between IP-A and the current wiring, but I am not sure on this and will ask for feedback / guidance.
    Ok understand. When I get time i'll take a look at your schematic and Drive manual to see if I can make sense of what you'll need.

    My suggestion is to break the conversion down into small parts and not try to eat the whole elephant in one sitting. SO
    First concentrate on getting it moving and whats required to do so. Then deal with sundries like ATC and spindle, coolant etc.

    There's more work to the ATC than you probably realise because as well has pneumatics you'll need ATC M6 macro writing to suit the controller so it can control the pneumatics and position axis etc in sequence before it can be used correctly. There will be ATC M6 start macros floating around you can use but still 99% chance if you find one it will need modding to suit the IP-A or controller your using.

    Coolant etc is easy stuff that is just switched ON/OFF using relays/contactors etc controlled thru outputs and can be added at any time.

    Give me a ring if your unsure.!
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 18-06-2015 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Ok understand. When I get time i'll take a look at your schematic and Drive manual to see if I can make sense of what you'll need.

    My suggestion is to break the conversion down into small parts and not try to eat the whole elephant in one sitting. SO
    First concentrate on getting it moving and whats required to do so. Then deal with sundries like ATC and spindle, coolant etc.

    There's more work to the ATC than you probably realise because as well has pneumatics you'll need ATC M6 macro writing to suit the controller so it can control the pneumatics and position axis etc in sequence before it can be used correctly. There will be ATC M6 start macros floating around you can use but still 99% chance if you find one it will need modding to suit the IP-A or controller your using.

    Coolant etc is easy stuff that is just switched ON/OFF using relays/contactors etc controlled thru outputs and can be added at any time.

    Give me a ring if your unsure.!
    Thanks. i2i has indicated he has most / all of these macros.

    At present, Im 99% sure the IP-A will work. Im checking wiring and it seems to match. 6 wires for the resolver, 1 ground, 3 for the motor.

    Page 36 of the IP-A manual shows what's needed and seems to match page 32 of http://www.irtsa.com/IMG/pdf/me1300re.pdf

    The pricing wont hold on the CS Labs, once they are sold out, the price goes back up. Willing to order one now, if its wrong, ill sell it on or try and exchange it later.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Thanks. i2i has indicated he has most / all of these macros.
    Yes he does but it will still need modding to work with IP-A. Cslabs controllers do alot of things differently to how Mach3 normally works and that's whats makes them good because they do it there way which works much better but it does mean they have dedicated outputs and params etc which will need to be included in the Macro.
    Also if the Spindle as an encoder fitted and needs to index for tool holder alignment you'll need CSlabs Encoder module. It probably doesn't but best mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    At present, Im 99% sure the IP-A will work. Im checking wiring and it seems to match. 6 wires for the resolver, 1 ground, 3 for the motor.
    Page 36 of the IP-A manual shows what's needed and seems to match page 32 of http://www.irtsa.com/IMG/pdf/me1300re.pdf
    Yes it will work. Resolver comes from Motor to Drive and as nothing to do with IP-A. Encoder output on Drive goes to Encoder Inputs on IP-A to close the loop between controller and Drive. At the moment you'll find it goes to the Controller that's fitted.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Yes he does but it will still need modding to work with IP-A. Cslabs controllers do alot of things differently to how Mach3 normally works and that's whats makes them good because they do it there way which works much better but it does mean they have dedicated outputs and params etc which will need to be included in the Macro.
    Also if the Spindle as an encoder fitted and needs to index for tool holder alignment you'll need CSlabs Encoder module. It probably doesn't but best mentioned.



    Yes it will work. Resolver comes from Motor to Drive and as nothing to do with IP-A. Encoder output on Drive goes to Encoder Inputs on IP-A to close the loop between controller and Drive. At the moment you'll find it goes to the Controller that's fitted.
    Thanks, yes, sorry, that's what I meant. I ordered the controller about an hour ago to get it for the weekend on the basis that I was fairly certain it was correct.

    Does this controller work with Mach 4?

    Which of the modules is the encoder module? Are you able to link it please? Also, how would I know, what do I look for that might be able to indicate if its needed or not?

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Does this controller work with Mach 4?
    Yes and No.
    Yes there is a Plug-in for M4 but it's still in Testing phase and not yet 100% stable so I'd recommend you don't Bother.
    The good thing is with M4 you can run it along side M3 without interfering with each other so testing M4 is easy if you want to try it and won't wreck your normal working M3 setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Which of the modules is the encoder module? Are you able to link it please? Also, how would I know, what do I look for that might be able to indicate if its needed or not?
    I've had a quick look at schematic and it's a DC spindle with no sign of encoder so wouldn't worry about it.

  6. Yes there is a plugging already available for mach 4.
    This is the link the encoder module.
    http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...io-ip-s-a.html
    however, you would typically fit a servo to the spindle to get the best from it for tapping.
    If the existing spindle is a high speed spindle, it is unlikely you will be able to tap with it, due to the lack of torque at the lower speeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
    Thanks, yes, sorry, that's what I meant. I ordered the controller about an hour ago to get it for the weekend on the basis that I was fairly certain it was correct.

    Does this controller work with Mach 4?

    Which of the modules is the encoder module? Are you able to link it please? Also, how would I know, what do I look for that might be able to indicate if its needed or not?

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZCNC View Post
    Yes and No.
    Yes there is a Plug-in for M4 but it's still in Testing phase and not yet 100% stable so I'd recommend you don't Bother.
    The good thing is with M4 you can run it along side M3 without interfering with each other so testing M4 is easy if you want to try it and won't wreck your normal working M3 setup.



    I've had a quick look at schematic and it's a DC spindle with no sign of encoder so wouldn't worry about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Yes there is a plugging already available for mach 4.
    This is the link the encoder module.
    http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/elec...io-ip-s-a.html
    however, you would typically fit a servo to the spindle to get the best from it for tapping.
    If the existing spindle is a high speed spindle, it is unlikely you will be able to tap with it, due to the lack of torque at the lower speeds.
    Thanks both.

    Ive installed Mach 3 and 4 to look around. Previously I used Planet CNC which I became familiar with.

    Can I test both of these before buying a license (demo period or similar)?

    In terms of 4th axis, how difficult, using this IP-A controller, would it be to get the older electronics for a 4th axis? Not sure if its possible to run different controllers or not (irrespective of cost)?

  8. #38
    m_c's Avatar
    Lives in East Lothian, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 5 Hours Ago Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 1,837. Received thanks 192 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    Yes, you can use Mach3 and 4 in Demo mode. Mach3 has a few features disabled (run from here is main one, but there are a couple others I've forgotten) and has a limit on the number of lines of G-code it'll run. Mach 4 just stops working after a random amount of time and needs restarted.
    .
    Regarding testing the servos, find the two wires to the drives that provided the +/-10V input, power up the drives, and using a 1.5V battery in series with about a 100ohm resistor (you can do it without the resistor, but it provides some protection if you happen to try connecting to the wrong wires/pins) connect it across the +/-10V input wires, then try reversing the connection. The servos should turn reasonably slowly in both directions, which lets you know the servos and drives are working.
    .
    Another option for a Controller, would be a Dynomotion KFlop + Kanalog combo (along with possibly a Konnect to gain more IO). The Kanalog gives you differential encoder inputs along with analogue inputs and outputs, while still retaining the option to use step/dir. However it is a more complicated controller to setup, and you have order direct from over the pond.
    .
    Personally, before you commit to buying a controller, I'd suggest making up a list (I make a spreadsheet) of all the inputs and outputs you're going to need, and what type of input/output i.e. analogue/digital/voltage, along with anything you may like to add in the future.
    If you post the list up here, I'm sure people on here will quite happily check it over. Going from your initial list, things like limit switches don't need connected to the controller. Connect them up via the E-stop circuit, with a manual override push switch to bypass them if you do run into them. When you first start, it seems like a good idea to monitor every single switch, but in reality/use, you soon realise it's not needed.
    Actually having scanned over your list again, I suspect the top limit switches should actually be the homing switches/sensors, as you also mention over limit switches further down.
    Avoiding the rubbish customer service from AluminiumWarehouse since July '13.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by m_c View Post
    Yes, you can use Mach3 and 4 in Demo mode. Mach3 has a few features disabled (run from here is main one, but there are a couple others I've forgotten) and has a limit on the number of lines of G-code it'll run. Mach 4 just stops working after a random amount of time and needs restarted.
    .
    Regarding testing the servos, find the two wires to the drives that provided the +/-10V input, power up the drives, and using a 1.5V battery in series with about a 100ohm resistor (you can do it without the resistor, but it provides some protection if you happen to try connecting to the wrong wires/pins) connect it across the +/-10V input wires, then try reversing the connection. The servos should turn reasonably slowly in both directions, which lets you know the servos and drives are working.
    .
    Another option for a Controller, would be a Dynomotion KFlop + Kanalog combo (along with possibly a Konnect to gain more IO). The Kanalog gives you differential encoder inputs along with analogue inputs and outputs, while still retaining the option to use step/dir. However it is a more complicated controller to setup, and you have order direct from over the pond.
    .
    Personally, before you commit to buying a controller, I'd suggest making up a list (I make a spreadsheet) of all the inputs and outputs you're going to need, and what type of input/output i.e. analogue/digital/voltage, along with anything you may like to add in the future.
    If you post the list up here, I'm sure people on here will quite happily check it over. Going from your initial list, things like limit switches don't need connected to the controller. Connect them up via the E-stop circuit, with a manual override push switch to bypass them if you do run into them. When you first start, it seems like a good idea to monitor every single switch, but in reality/use, you soon realise it's not needed.
    Actually having scanned over your list again, I suspect the top limit switches should actually be the homing switches/sensors, as you also mention over limit switches further down.
    Thanks. Ive bought the CSLabs IP-A already. It should arrive tomorrow and hopefully I can get some movement this weekend. Theoretically I could get a fair bit of progress unless I run into some issues. The ATC needs a few parts but if I can get basic movement, Ill be OK with that. There are 2 sets of switches from what I can see on the drawing, one set is absolute limit switches and then the others are Datum / Zero. On a 3D printer the absolute limit ones would have been referred to as the + limits and - limit is normally the Zero position.

    Also agree, dont need a lot connected to get basic movement and will wire in the bits that I need, as I need it.

  10. #40
    OK, so some progress.

    Completed:-

    Converted most of the power system to single phase. Need to still sort out the coolant pump however.
    Removed the old PC to make space for the CS Labs controller.
    Looked at a lot of the wiring, for a long time.
    Worked out that from the 3 Axis connectors that used to go to the old PC, I can basically input and output to that 15 Way D sub connector to get encoder signals out and speed reference in as well as satisfying some of the logic requirements.
    Worked out where the Spindle Drive 0-10V can be connected to on the standard block. Some of the logic that enables the drive I am not sure about yet.

    Fairly happy with the progress although so much to look at and find on other sheets / cross reference, takes ages.

    All going to plan, I should be able to move all drives and start the spindle tomorrow unless there is a unit faulty or something goes wrong (hope not).

    Will use a laptop at first to setup the CS Labs unit and get going until I can build a PC into the cabinet. Not sure about space as the CSLabs unit takes a fair whack of space, might make another plan.

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