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  1. #31
    Alright, moving forward with the assembled and complete gantry (Y axis, Z axis and gantry sides). I still need to mirror the right gantry side but that's a detail compared to the amount of hours I put into making the sides and assembling everything. Solidworks can be a pain sometimes, and the 2GB RAM of my good old HP laptop are starting to struggle a bit.

    Gantry weight is calculated to 39 kg without the second gantry side (@toomast: this is strange, but I've checked again that parts were set to the correct material, may be I can PM you the model and you can check if I have done something wrong ?). The Y axis is securely fastened to the gantry sides and contributes quite a lot to its rigidity.

    Assembled gantry with sides and Z.

    Gantry side with motor mounted on left side plate. Notice the extruded cut in the Y axis front plate to make room for the motor.

    Gantry side. Y axis is fixed at 14 points. Weirdly, I had rendered this with fasteners showing, but they did not appear on the render.

    General remarks:

    1. I got a quote from my seller. He is asking for $886 for the following (shipping not included):
      - 2 x 2400mm HIWIN 20 rail
      - 2 x 1600mm HIWIN 20 rail
      - 2 x 700mm HIWIN 20 rail
      - 4 x HGH20CA blocks
      - 8 x HGW20CA blocks

      Shipping is not included because he does not know how to ship the 2400mm rails. He said the maximum length is 2000mm, but he will be looking for other ways to ship. Does anyone know if it is possible to assemble two HIWIN rails to make one (kind of like @routercnc suggested for round rails) ? I would be worried about the moment where the blocks slide on the junction...

      Let's say we find a solution for shipping. You're looking a $1100 at least. Trying the round rails first is just a must now. Unless one of you guys is willing to sponsor me , I'm ready to sacrifice machine quality to the price of 1000 Euros with which I will gladly go on a vacation with my girlfriend .
    2. I haven't gotten a fastener count yet but once the X axis is added I will post one. I think we're looking at 150 bolts and nuts. X axis will most likely add another 100. But I'm being very generous on these numbers so don't take me at my word.
    3. Great surprise... DHL taxes for the leadscrews have arrived today ... That's and additional cost of $70.
    4. Spindle has shipped yesterday night and is on its way, first class on FedEx airlines . Taxes for that package will be cheaper of course, I'm guessing around $40.


    Next steps:

    1. Finish the model (X axis, bed, limit switches, spindle clamp holes). The X axis will be modeled like the Y and Z axis with integrated shaft supports and fasteners. The bed will be made of 100x100mm square steel profile rails, I think (because it's just cheaper and faster to make, assemble and weld, as there are no complicated parts / holes / cuts).
    2. Make DXF files and send them to different cutters for quotes (i'll take the cheapest). Cutting will be done with a .04mm maximum tolerance (anything better is a plus but not a must).
    3. Order AM882 (200).
    4. Make PSU (100).
    5. Put it all together !
    6. Configure, test and report precision :)

    After modeling for 20 hours in the past two days, and writing this post for one more hour, I think I've deserved a break, so I'll go make myself a mojito now.
    Cheers !
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  2. #32
    i don't want to discourage you but as i have some experience doing similar assemblies from laser cut parts:

    -going from square to round rails is a very bad idea at that point. Why waste effort and money then to make all that rigid structure. If you go with round rails then make a simpler square profile structure, no need to make that laser cut monster

    - BST automation at aliexpress , Fred is a very good seller, he could do all that stuff, machining screws, send 3m well packed ball screws, lower value, etc. tell him Boyan sends you, he gives me best prices compared to ebay and aliexpress, furthermore you could order all from him, including VFD ans spindle, he has more than he lists, just email him, no problem with errors or warranties

    -the way you fix your motor and ball screw, that moves the Z left right, take care to be able to adjust that

    -as i made some similar stuff i am telling you you will need at least 12 heavy duty clamps to be able to straighten all and solder. plus a big plastic hammer at least, i would say you will need a press. see what i did here for the Z #155 and imagine at your scale of things how difficult that will be in reality if plate is not straight after cutting
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    i don't want to discourage you but as i have some experience doing similar assemblies from laser cut parts:
    No worries, you are not discouraging me at all ! I appreciate very much the effort you put in giving me advice, and I am willing 100% to listen to you !

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    -going from square to round rails is a very bad idea at that point. Why waste effort and money then to make all that rigid structure.
    Yes, I've decided to go round rails, no doubts. My next build with higher budget will get those HIWIN stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    If you go with round rails then make a simpler square profile structure, no need to make that laser cut monster
    What do you mean ? I don't picture it very well :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    - BST automation at aliexpress , Fred is a very good seller, he could do all that stuff, machining screws, send 3m well packed ball screws, lower value, etc. tell him Boyan sends you, he gives me best prices compared to ebay and aliexpress, furthermore you could order all from him, including VFD ans spindle, he has more than he lists, just email him, no problem with errors or warranties
    Right, I've seen you guys all buy from him. I'll note that and make sure I order from him next time. I won't forget to tell him it's from you so I can get best prices. It's nice of you to share !

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    -the way you fix your motor and ball screw, that moves the Z left right, take care to be able to adjust that
    Okay, I'll make slots for the motor holes. I have more room on the Y axis. Z is a bit tighter so not sure I can have big slots there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    -as i made some similar stuff i am telling you you will need at least 12 heavy duty clamps to be able to straighten all and solder. plus a big plastic hammer at least, i would say you will need a press. see what i did here for the Z #155 and imagine at your scale of things how difficult that will be in reality if plate is not straight after cutting
    Sounds good. But, what kind of clamps are you talking about ? Can you give me an example ? Maybe I can ask the cutter to surface the steel ? I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what they can do to minimize the distortion effect due to heat. Water jet cutting would probably solve this issue. Post-heating / pressing the plates as well (?). But as you said, a good rubber hammer and clamps will do it with enough patience.
    Last edited by eurikain; 24-08-2015 at 11:40 PM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by eurikain View Post

    Sounds good. But, what kind of clamps are you talking about ? Can you give me an example ? Maybe I can ask the cutter to surface the steel ? I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what they can do to minimize the distortion effect due to heat. Watergate cutting would probably solve this issue. Post-heating / pressing the plates as well (?). But as you said, a good rubber hammer and clamps will do it with enough patience.
    No need for water jet cutting. cause the plate itself is not straight in the planar dimension.

    talking about gantry


    What i am saying is that wyou will need big woodworking clamps to clamp together the front plate to the cut of the up and down plates. As the cut will be straight you have to push well the fron and back plate so they are flat against that edges. Which could be a challenge even with clamps . Do you get what i mean? You may be will need a press and then clamp. But when you have them at hand you will see.

    Cause if you dont clamp them well against that edge prior to soldering, you will need to epoxy level below the rails.
    Last edited by Boyan Silyavski; 24-08-2015 at 08:21 PM.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  5. #35
    Alright I understand what you are saying now :) !

    But a more general understanding of what you are saying is (correct me if I'm wrong):

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    If you go with round rails then make a simpler square profile structure, no need to make that laser cut monster
    +
    Quote Originally Posted by Boyan Silyavski View Post
    Cause if you dont clamp them well against that edge prior to soldering, you will need to epoxy level below the rails.
    = Forget the IKEA-like nuts and bolts to fasten the plates. Just weld it together. May be make bigger joints so I have larger spots to weld.

    ?

  6. #36
    @toomast: This is sort of embarrassing, but after applying steel 304 to all my parts (except standard parts like leadscrews and stuff) solid works calculates 280kg (where 57 kg for Z axis)......... oO ?? Is that even possible ?
    Last edited by eurikain; 25-08-2015 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #37
    Important updates:

    Following Boyan's advice, I am switching to a new Z / Y / gantry design, adapting my old one, removing nuts and bolts. I am also switching to ALUMINIUM instead of steel, as this thing is way too heavy. The new design lightens it but going to aluminium will be the solution. I'll be using 20mm sheets, unless you guys think 15mm is better to reduce weight. I'll be adding pockets at some places to lighten the whole thing.

    I called the cutting company. They said parts will be water jet cut (I have no choice on that, but no big deal, I've got good prices anyway) with .25mm accuracy.

    I keep the round rods, no changes on that. Instead of being supported by profiles, they will be supported by M8 bolts every 70mm plus at both ends.

    Here are the pictures of the Z axis, evaluated to 17kg, but that should decrease with pocketing.
    Complete Z.

    Z without front plate.

    Cheers.
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  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by eurikain View Post
    Important updates:

    Following Boyan's advice, I am switching to a new Z / Y / gantry design....

    What are you doing right now is Not following my advice. Of course its your machine, i am just trying to help. Seems you a missing my biggest point. What i told you before:

    Keep the design with square rails! Save from all else. Dont compromise on that. Dont exchange that for a vacation



    Ok i understand - expensive, you want to change the design to round rails. Then read some similar build logs and design much lighter and simpler frame.


    Here is my advice:

    -make the Z strong. 20mm aluminum plate is Not strong enough if not braced. Ideal will be 12-15mm steel plate, braced and done like#8 here where i explain much better and simpler Z design with the same effort

    -make gantry from profiles cut on a Rage saw and soldered. gantry sides also. Look my second project in signature for the gantry sides / 100x100 profile/ Design all machine from one profile, say 80x80x4mm or 100x100x3mm , no fancy plates and crap where you waste money. Order 6m steel box profiles, cut all on Rage saw and solder.

    From here you will save the money for the square rails. Difference between square rails and other type of linear movement is like from Ferrari compared to Trabant


    -My direct advice is follow my first build and change gantry sides like i did them on my second. Thats the cheapest and strongest machine at the same time possible.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  9. #39
    Wal's Avatar
    Lives in Stockport, United Kingdom. Current Activity: Viewing Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 315. Received thanks 29 times, giving thanks to others 12 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by eurikain View Post
    I keep the round rods, no changes on that. Instead of being supported by profiles, they will be supported by M8 bolts every 70mm plus at both ends.
    Stop. Think about that. Then think about it again and again until this crazy idea is banished from your head..!

    (Out of morbid curiosity, how were you ever going to make that work..?)

    Wal.

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  11. #40
    toomast's Avatar
    Lives in Tartu, Estonia. Last Activity: 22 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 79.
    Quote Originally Posted by eurikain View Post
    @toomast: This is sort of embarrassing, but after applying steel 304 to all my parts (except standard parts like leadscrews and stuff) solid works calculates 280kg (where 57 kg for Z axis)......... oO ?? Is that even possible ?
    Yeah, thats more like it. Steel is heavy stuff.
    I see you have a lot of feedback with good advice. It is not easy to decide the correct path ;)

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