5-Axis machine - Opinions please!

[Joshi]

Hi,



This machine is absolutely unsuitable for any metal (unsupported rails on XYZ and most likely timing belts for AB -> by far not enough stiffness).
For aluminum you may be able to build a small 5 axis machine from $10000 upwards - for steel at least double that number.

But mechanics are only one issue - software is another:

• "Cheap" 5 axis software starts at about $5000 (I'm not joking).
• Even if you manage to get a copy of such software it will be useless because you need someone to program a post processor for your machines kinematics.
• Don't expect this kind of software to be easy to use - even CNC programmers with years of experience usually need to visit expensive training courses to use those programs.

5 Axis machining is absolutely out of reach for any hobbyist and even most businesses.

By the way: the part you've shown is possible with 3 axis as far as I can see - you just need to flip it once.
But even for just 3 axis you won't be able to find a machine with the ability to machine steel for just £1000.

Christian

An extensive and compelling reply. Thank you very much Christian, I really appreciate that.

I thought from the beginning of my research that a 3 axis machine would be enough for my needs - but as it often goes with research one thing leads to another and you somehow convince yourself you always need the next machine 'up' as it where.

What about the Boxford machines converted with Mach3? They're able to do mild steel from what their website and staff would have you believe. At my current stage taking something out and physically flipping it would be fine - how hard is this to do and align properly?

My budget is probably around £2500 but id obviously like to spend less than that if I can. And im happy to wait a bit to do so.

As another opinion, what do you reckon to this? (for Alu, not Mild)...

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-misc...ine/1133751010

J

[JAZZCNC]

As another opinion, what do you reckon to this? (for Alu, not Mild)...

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-misc...ine/1133751010

J

This is quite similair design to Denford router and I can tell you now they are no suitable for aluminium despite what the blurb may say.
There's a big difference between scratching and cutting and the simple truth is that cutting harder materials requires a ridged machine with the correct spindle.
These Boxford/Denford type machines are light weight machines designed for teaching students in range of materials so while the Blurb says they cut aluminium what they actually should say is they scratch Aluminium away. If you want resonable feed rates and decent finish quality then these light weight machines are not strong enough for cutting Aluminium correctly and Just plan unsuitable for steels.

The machine you require for cutting steels and aluminium correctly when buying off the shelf is a Milling machine, which is actually hard to find and quite expensive when you do because of the spindle required.?
Aluminium requires spindle speeds in the 8-14000rpm range and higher if smaller tooling. Steel requires anywhere between 100-3000rpm and lots of torque.
Spindles with low to high rpm with torque are very expensive and quite hard to find Off the shelf Milling machine with one. When you do you'll need to sell the family to afford one.!

If you build a machine then it's possible to get machine that will do both but again the spindle plays a huge part and cost's lots. The design needs to be strong and components used of resonably quality and matched to the application. All this cost's far more than £1K and like I say £3k will be a more realistic figure for a good machine worth the effort.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but it is realistic reply.!!

[Joshi]

All this cost's far more than £1K and like I say £3k will be a more realistic figure for a good machine worth the effort.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear but it is realistic reply.!!

No no, on the contrary, this is EXACTLY what I need to hear. Actual solid advice! Thank you all so much. My budget, if I'm honest, is complete guesswork as Im in talks with lovely people about something of a cash injection to get me off the ground.

If you guys honestly believe it possible and 'better' to build my own truly Aluminium (and possibly harder material) capable machine then I am totally all-ears.

But for the sake of argument, what sort of machines would I be looking at - if you could provide names or links to pages that would be chuffing excellent. Im all about the research and the more data I have to go on, the more I can get stuck into it :D

[JAZZCNC]

If you guys honestly believe it possible and 'better' to build my own truly Aluminium (and possibly harder material) capable machine then I am totally all-ears.

But for the sake of argument, what sort of machines would I be looking at - if you could provide names or links to pages that would be chuffing excellent. Im all about the research and the more data I have to go on, the more I can get stuck into it :D

Yes it's more than possible to built your own machine capable of cutting aluminium and mild steel but it's not an easy or cheap task and something I wouldn't encourage a new person to under take.

The main issue is you really need another machine to build the next machine to achieve the accurecy and strength required. Then you have the Cost.!!
The cost of a spindle alone capable of cutting steels correctly and still be fast enough for aluminium will start around £2000 -2500 upto 4-5K. So hopefully you can see some of what your up against.

Now if you lower your sights and stick with Aluminium/brass being the upper limit then with the right design and choosing the correct components then it's possible to build a very nice machine with £3K. Cutting Steels really does take you into another zone.!!

Converting a Mill is an option but IME if mostly cutting aluminium then they are not always ideal. Again it's the spindle speeds.!! Upgrading the spindle isn't always possible and if it is then it won't be cheap upgrade to do correctly.

I have seen German made Wabeco Mills that have High speed spindles but they have all been very expensive.!

[Joshi]

Ok - so this is the reply they sent me. Confirmation its to be avoided?

"Hi Josh
Thanks for your message .

This is a full set machine, with water cooling pump & hand controller, but if you need it to work perfect, you need to connect it with a PC.
It is controlled by Mach3 software(we have a software CD to go with the machine, on the CD, there is a demon version Mach3).
When you got the machine, you can install the software on your desktop PC(Window XP/2000) by LPT port.
There is a brief manual on the CD, you can set up the software following the manual guide, when you have this work done, the machine can run normally,
but if you need to make it work for your need, you need to do some CNC drawing & programming on other CNC software first,
then load the program on Mach3 so that you can make the machine to do your own work accordingly.

We have 1pcs 3mm bit & 1pcs 6mm bit included in the package for you, if you need some other machining bits, you got to prepare them by yourself.

This machine can work on metals like Aluminum, brass, stainless steel etc, here are some video for your reference:
http://i.youku.com/u/id_UMTM0MDQxOTc2OA==


The item will be shipped via DHL ,usually you will receive the item 12-15 business day
The business day is not include saturday and sunday .

We do appreciate your understanding and time.
If you have any questions,feel free to contact us,we are always here to serve you.
Looking forward to your reply
Best regards
Candy"

Video link - http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzA0ODI0MzAw.html?from=y1.7-1.2

[komatias]

Some of these videos are pretty persuasive:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...se+3040+5+axis

[JAZZCNC]

I'm sorry but this is not cutting.!! . . . . I see scratching, rubbing and hear plenty of resonance but not much cutting going off.!!

[Christian Knuell]

Hi,

As another opinion, what do you reckon to this? (for Alu, not Mild)...

https://www.gumtree.com/p/other-miscellaneous-goods/desktop-cnc-icp-2015-milling-machine/1133751010

honestly very hard to tell because you can't see the guides. Considering the price I doubt it to be suitable for aluminum - I wouldn't risk it.

If you really want to machine steel for as little money as possible maybe an "BF20" clone (something like this http://www.ebay.de/bhp/optimum-bf20 but there are many more companies with very similar machines) converted to CNC ist the best choice.
Those machines are small, cost quite some money until they are converted to CNC and are still far from a "serious" machine for steel machining - but at least they get the job done.


Christian