Thread: Boxford 165 HMC

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  1. #21
    If I fit a potentiometer between the 10v and -10v and it works am I not just covering up some problem that needs fixing by another method I mean if the slider was meant to be there would they not have fit it at the factory?

  2. #22
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 20 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 5,791. Received thanks 900 times, giving thanks to others 36 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    Hi, should I be seeing a voltage displayed on the Mach 3 screen when the spindle is running, it does display the commanded speed but no voltage.
    there is a sensor mounted on the rear of the spindle looking at a disc with holes in it I followed back the wires from that sensor and they go into a terminal rail but nothing comes out, is that sensor only for spindle synchronisation like ridgid tapping??
    if there is no voltage feedback could this be the reason that the spindle is creeping when I power up?
    chris.
    No you won't see a voltage on the screen but you will see Analog voltage on the Cslabs Plugin control if you want to see the voltage.

    Regards the creeping have you set the spindle control up correctly regards Pulleys etc.? You may be getting a Voltage on the pin if not.!
    Could be stray noise but I doubt it.

    Thou to be honest the Spindle shouldn't be spinning because the Lenze shouldn't run until it gets a signal for the Run command no matter is Ref voltage is being applied or not. The REf voltage should just say run at this speed when you do turn on.!
    Are you sure you have it wired correctly.? Does the Lenze have an enable or Run input.?

  3. #23
    He said, the wiring is made from a friend, but he hadn't wired the spindle drive correct.
    This part should be the easiest of all, but without experience, he shouldn't make anything.
    I'll try to make a correct drawing this weekend, maybe then he can wiring it by herself.

  4. #24
    Ok the spindle creep was sorted with the nMIN pot on the lenze and I adjusted the nMAX pot to match the commanded speed to the actual spindle speed, as I understand it my man set the ratio within Mach,
    the CS analogue I/o number 1 is connected to terminal number 4 on the isolation card so I am controlling the spindle through Mach but not through the forward and reversing relays.
    uli I see the wiring on your machine terminal number 4 on isolation card is a white wire where does that go to?

    i spoke to someone at boxford it's been too long ago for them to support this machine any longer as they have moved offices and cleared out any info they had on this model.
    on the plus side of this the more I look at it and liable things up its starting to make more sense, but I just don't understand relays!
    chris.

  5. #25
    Thats ridiculous, they don't want, the machine is more or less indentical with the 230VMC. But, if you spoke to a boxford man, can you ask him, if the spindle is identical to the one from the 190 and 300 machine. If I know, I can buy a working spindle, then I can modify the existing spindle for BT30 with toolchanger without the trouble, the modification, don't work. From the motorside its no difference to the 190 (as long as I seen til now) Except the toolcarousel, which is a simple DC-Motor with a beltdrive. which can only run unidirectional til the next position of the stopswitch.If you want to control the spindle speed via the frontswitches, you must connect it to the input clamps of your control unit. IIRC they have 20 ports, which you can use. Its the same with the feedspeedknob, no function without connection.
    Last edited by uli12us; 28-11-2015 at 10:07 PM.

  6. #26
    No all the front switches are not connected the only working switch is the estop but that only knocks off the enable contactor but now I need to include the CS labs into the estop circuit BUT the estop on the machine is 240v which I think would not be ok for the CS labs estop terminals!
    i still need to work that one out,
    I think 100% control through Mach is ok it offers everything that the machine control panel has to offer but I have a MPG unit plugged into the CS labs which I think is vital to set the machine properly.
    when you stated the ridgid tapping is not a really useful option why do we need a reverse on the machine????
    is the "direct connection" between CS labs to isolation board going to be a problem because of load on the CS unit??
    soooo many questions,

  7. #27
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 20 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 5,791. Received thanks 900 times, giving thanks to others 36 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    No all the front switches are not connected the only working switch is the estop but that only knocks off the enable contactor but now I need to include the CS labs into the estop circuit BUT the estop on the machine is 240v which I think would not be ok for the CS labs estop terminals!
    i still need to work that one out,
    Chris does the Contactor have a NO Aux Contact.? or a Spare contact you can use.? If so then it's simple case of running 0v wire from 24V supply thru this Contact and back to Input (-) on IP-S. Then take (+) from 24V supply to the Input (+).
    Now when E-stop occurs and Contactor drops it informs the Controller of the E-stop. It's that simple.!


    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    is the "direct connection" between CS labs to isolation board going to be a problem because of load on the CS unit??
    soooo many questions,
    If your talking about the 0-10v Ref signal then provided the Lenze is Isolated from Mains Voltage then you won't have any problems.


    You say you don't under stand Relays so let me explain they are very simple really. Relay is basicly just switch or number of switches that are turned on/off by electricity.
    There is a electromagnetic coil which is connected to the switch or switches, buts lets call them by there proper name Contacts.
    Each Contact can be in one of two states when NO power is applied. NO or NC meaning Normally Open or Normally Closed.
    When power is applied to the relay Coil each switch Flips state. So NO contact becomes CLOSED and NC becomes OPEN.

    The # of contacts on relay are often refered to has POLES when buying so for instance 4PDT or 2PST. 4PDT translates to 4 x sets of contacts that each have 2 states OPEN or CLOSED. DT standing for Double throw.
    This means for each contact there are 3 connections. COM, NC & NO. An example of how you would use this type of relay is say for when in E-stop condition you wanted to inform the Control about E-stop and at same time turn on an Alarm light.

    So you would run say 24V to the COM connection. Then run a wire from the NO connection to the Controller E-stop (+) INPUT. Take another wire From the NC connection to the (+) side of the Alarm Light.
    Now run Power thru your E-stop Button/s to the Relay COILS. This power could be the Same 24V running thru Contacts or any other voltage that matches the COILS rating. ie 5V or 240V

    So now When E-stop is Safe ie Not pushed and power is running thru the E-stop circuit the relay turns on. This Flips the Switch states NO becomes Closed and lets power flow to the Controller INPUT informing E-stop is safe. At the same time the NC flips states and Removes power from the Alarm light which turns off.
    Hit the E-stop button and contacts flip state. Alarm light see power and lights up and controller see's the INPUT change so E-stops the system.

    Now obviously you could have more contacts and have it do all sorts of things like turn Kettle on because the Job is Stuffed and you need a Brew to Chill. . Lol

    Relays also come in ST flavors meaning Single Throw. So each Contact only has 2 terminals COM and one State NC or NO.

    Hopefully you get the picture and it's clear.

    Oh and Contactor is just a Relay with Contacts that handle Higher power.



    It's that simple really and in practise you decide which Contact State to use and number needed to do the Job.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 29-11-2015 at 12:50 AM.

  8. #28
    ok thanks for keeping it simple jazz the estop is now operational from ground through spare contact to 0v on both the IP-S and the MPG module I then went a step further and put the ground (feed to the contactor) into estop1 on the MPG module and put ESTOP2 to ground as the MPG module ESTOP button opens the circuit then mach 3 knows about it,
    but no because as soon as I push the enable the spindle motor spins, so I put the feed to contactor ground not through the MPG module and it works fine yet in the cs labs instructions it shows the ESTOP1 and ESTOP2 are just a switch, am I being simple and missing something?
    the MPG is not smooth at all, is that for another thread??
    chris.

  9. #29
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 20 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 5,791. Received thanks 900 times, giving thanks to others 36 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    I then went a step further and put the ground (feed to the contactor) into estop1 on the MPG module and put ESTOP2 to ground as the MPG module ESTOP button opens the circuit then mach 3 knows about it,
    but no because as soon as I push the enable the spindle motor spins, so I put the feed to contactor ground not through the MPG module and it works fine yet in the cs labs instructions it shows the ESTOP1 and ESTOP2 are just a switch, am I being simple and missing something?
    the MPG is not smooth at all, is that for another thread??
    chris.
    No not being simple it is just a switch. Think of it like a relay E1 & E2 are just a contact which are controlled by pins 13 & 25 which are like the coil. In reality it will be a transistor or something like that but principle is the same.

    So E1 & E2 just go in series with your main E-stop that drops the Contactors. The control will know then because the Input you run thru the Contactor spare terminal will signal this.
    Provided your Main E-stop Circuit is a Latching one then Pushing Enable should have No affect if E-stop is pressed. It shouldn't even spin when Enable is pushed if Mach isn't reset and then when it is still shouldn't spin untill given a M3 command or spindle spin button pressed. So Sounds to me like you still have something wrong on the spindle side.

    Or If when you push E-stop then release it your system becomes live again then your not safe. You should have a Reset button that will only allow a Restart when things are correct.

    Can't help with the Rough MPG I'm afraid. Are you using a pendent bought with MPG or is it one you made up.? Could be dodgy wiring so encoder signals are wrong or faulty Rotery MPG.?
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 01-12-2015 at 12:37 AM.

  10. #30
    hello thanks for the information guys the estop on the machine and the mpg unit (CS labs mpg so should be a reliable plugin) are properly functional with the enable push button doing what it should and the spindle behaving itself,
    we have progressed quite quickly to say I was completely lost!!
    would it be deemed unprofessional to wire the spindle forward relay only and strip out the reverse wiring?
    dont get me wrong I would like full functionality out of the machine but for the amount of time it will take me to work out how to wire the reverse without damaging the CS labs unit versus the amount of times I will use m4
    is quite an easy desicion but if it really isn't that difficult I do enjoy learning.
    uli did you manage to do that spindle wiring sketch at weekend?
    jazz where does the latching relay come into play with the spindle wiring as the examples I have seen on how to reverse a motor on the net can be done with 2 relays with the motor wires opposed?
    i notice quite a lot of differences between my machine and Ulis machine to say they are only 1 digit apart on the serial number, maybe my machine has had some not so great work done to it in its lifetime......dunno
    if you men are getting tired of this then I am sorry cos I don't want this to be a lifetime project I just wanna make stuff and develop while reading other people's questions rather than being the one asking,
    any info is all good info,
    thanks guys,
    chris.

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