Thread: Boxford 165 HMC

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    would it be deemed unprofessional to wire the spindle forward relay only and strip out the reverse wiring?
    dont get me wrong I would like full functionality out of the machine but for the amount of time it will take me to work out how to wire the reverse without damaging the CS labs unit versus the amount of times I will use m4
    is quite an easy desicion but if it really isn't that difficult I do enjoy learning.
    No it's not unprofessional and we are DIY so what's it matter.! But that said it's not difficult to do anyway so really no reason why not to have it.
    The main thing is that the Spindle comes to a Complete stop before the Reverse Command executes. Mach3 provides a way for this using CW & CCW Spindle Delay before turning on the relavant output. It's just a case doing a bit of experimenting with timings to how long it takes for spindle to come to complete stop. . . .See pic:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    jazz where does the latching relay come into play with the spindle wiring as the examples I have seen on how to reverse a motor on the net can be done with 2 relays with the motor wires opposed?
    The Latching Circuit I refered to was the E-stop circuit which has nothing to do with the Spindle Reversing. Only affect on Spindle would be to Turn it off in E-stop condition. The controller would be informed of the E-stop so should Stop spindle starting back up automaticly after E-stop and machine is reset. Not until Spindle Start button or M3/4 command is given should the spindle start up again.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    if you men are getting tired of this then I am sorry cos I don't want this to be a lifetime project I just wanna make stuff and develop while reading other people's questions rather than being the one asking,
    Ask away Chris I for one don't get tired of answering if can help. The harder or more difficult the question the better really because it makes me think deeper.
    Often the Hard part with helping is not the actual problem but working out what someone with less experience is trying to get across. Many times I read some question and start computing solutions only to realise that they are actually meaning a completely different thing to what came across in the question.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 03-12-2015 at 12:09 AM.

  2. #32
    Hi guys, I am considering stripping the whole cabinet and fitting new motors and drives and spindle vfd and motor I don't want to be spannering this thing for the rest of my days I wanna make stuff and the amount of time that this machine has absorbed in the last 12 moths is a worry cos it's not finished yet and I face the fact that I am out of my comfort zone with the experimenting of moving wires around and waiting for magic smoke,
    i see that zapp are agents for CS labs gear and they are mentioned lots of times in a positive manner, would there be an ideal match to suit the bit that I will keep which is the ip-s.....closed loop, servo or stepper????
    if I going to do it it might as well be right, as for the A axis I would really like to make this a full 4th rather than 45 degree would I need to change the mechanics of the drive to minimise backlash......uli you said you wanted to fit a disc brake to the underside of the table, I presume just to keep some "load" on it to reduce backlash?
    as always any advice is good,

  3. Chris I'll help you with this Don't go throwing good money away until your sure it's needed. I'll send you my number if you ring me I'm sure we can get you going easy enough. It's always difficult via forum alone but I've got many people working using the phone and Email. Give me a ring.

  4. #34
    MY machine is working, without the control issue. So I don't see the necessarity of removing everything of it.
    If you like a better resolution, you can eventually change the Stepperdrivers for newer products.
    The problem with the old parts is, nobody knows, who have produced it. The mousepiano on it promised, that you can choose from various microsteppings. But without a users manual, which switch is for what?
    The Steppermotors are actual models, they are sold until today, let it be, if they work.
    I hope, I can make all the work with the machine today, then I can give you the wiring for the

    I'm a bit further now, but haven't completed the wiring. The small relay RL4 goes only to the RL1, which changes the direction of the mill spindle. Tomorrow I look at the wiring of the Iso-board, and then it should be all complete for programming the spindle with the CSmio Board.

    The terminal block beside the RL2 is in this direction +5V, +12V, +24V and +70V which goes only to the stepper drivers. 12V to stepper drivers as well.

    But I miss a lot of fuses in the machine. I think each Stepperdrive should have an extra fuse,
    as well as the spindle motor, thats I think is integrated in the Lenze drive.
    Last edited by uli12us; 07-12-2015 at 05:11 PM.

  5. #35
    Hello men, I have been busy altering the spindle and the y axis casting!!!!
    i know the machine isn't original but it will be fit for purpose for me it's a 18,000 rpm teknomotor with an er 25 collet, running on a vfd, I want to be able to take advantage of speeds and feeds for brass parts and leaving the machine electrics "stuck" in the 1990s without proper diagrams for trouble shooting is a problem for me.
    jazz thanks for the pm I am thankful for the offer of help,
    i am stripping the system out and starting again, fitting limit/ homing switches touch probe for tool length setting,
    uli what is the prox switch for on the a axis?? The switch is present but nothing connected to it on the other side of the terminal block,

    i have lost about 25mm in z axis but it's ok to work in centre of table with a chuck and I will make an off centre tombstone for any bigger jobs.
    here is a pic from the new motor fitted,
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I will put the odd picture on of the alteration, some proper "you've done it now" and "oh shit no going back now" moments, and until it's up and running there will always be an element of "have I done the right thing"
    but it's done now and I am suited with the result so far,
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I did this part on a vertical at work at night,
    Last edited by chris w; 21-12-2015 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Mistake

  6. #36
    I am ready to strip out old bits can anyone tell me if I should wire the new vfd through the choke that the existing spindle is wired through or is that just to smooth out the feed for the DC motor?

  7. I think that's a DC choke which works slightly different to AC Line Filter. Does a similair Job but I don't think it's filters out everything like AC filter does.

    Personaly I wouldn't use it. If the Inverter gives you any noise troubles then just buy AC line filter. Thou if your grounding in control box is ok you shouldn't have any troubles from the Inverter.

  8. #38
    Thanks for reply jazz, there is a line filter fitted which is between isolator and psu so I thought I would leave it original upto and including the filter then fit new psu from there, I am also going to leave the estop circuit and the enable contactor, so really the only changes are the stepper drives and vfd, then the addition of home and limit switches oh and the probe and see if I can do something with the switch on the a axis, I think it's a in position switch just to confirm that a axis has finished before z moves but it's not wired to anything on the other side of the terminal block but there is no mechanical difference on the index ring for the switch to be a home switch, if it's not wired then there must be a presumption taking place or a dwell in the original operating system to allow for the a to move before x or z sets off to machine the part.
    I will be interested in what uli does in the future to the a axis as I would like it to be a full 4th for flexibility but I bother that I am thinking too far,
    but I read about the new member wanting a bigger 3 d machine and that shows people will always find a way to drive forward even if the odds are against, brilliant I love it!

  9. #39
    As far as I know the DC-Choke sits between the motor controller and the motor.
    In contrary the AC Choke or better filter sits between mains and controller.

    Because of the A- better B-Axis because its parallel to the Y. I will remove the ratchet and change it to a simple round block. then I'll add a hydraulik brake, so I can clamp the Position, when i machine a part. Eventually I can add an angle measurement system, so I can see on a Display in which orientation the axe is.

    But that will last a while, first the machine must run in the actual configuration, before I want chang anything.

    In a further future I want to change the X-B slider to another who moves the part in
    X-A. Or If I can get a massive block of iron I plan eventually an further complete
    X-B-A block, so I can machine 5Axe parts on the machine.
    For this I must make a ATC Spindle and the TC maybe with a roboter, eventually with a double decker tool turret. I think 8 tools is a bit little for machining a part within an hour or so. 16 seems much better.
    Last edited by uli12us; 22-12-2015 at 08:52 AM.

  10. #40
    That seems like a lot of work uli what parts are you wanting to make on the machine or is it you like to develop it to have maximum capability for any job that comes along.
    i stripped out the older system tonight and was astounded by the amount of wires that came out of the ferrules with no effort, makes me think some of the problems could have been bad or unreliable connections!! Better not tell the wife eh!!
    thanks for the help up to now guys I am sure there is some questions coming your way quite soon,
    uli/ jazz when I get to the end of this project would you be interested in the old system parts, drives, spindle motor and drive relays........

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