Thread: Boxford 165 HMC

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  1. #1
    I hope that is ok, posting in this forum, because I get an obviously nearly unused 165 horizontal mill.
    I asked Boxford, but they say, they have nothing about it, no documentation, spare parts or Software.
    And I have possibly the only machine that is sold ever.
    But I know from a further machine in GB, 6 years ago.
    Once upon a time there was a man who have a mass of documentation
    of all the machines.
    His Nick was BOXFORDCNCMAN with the email www.boxford-retro-cnc.co.uk

    But the email is dead.

    Does anyone here know, who are the boxfordcncman?
    I will try to get a documentation from the school where the machine seems to be installed, some 30 years ago.

    Pictures will coming soon.

    After a short test everything seems ok, all motors running, unfortunately the B-Axis can only turn unidirectional in 45 increments. But I have a snailgearbox. So if I change the clampingstar for a pneumatic discbrake it should be possible to make continous rotation with any (in the driver given resolution) desired increment.
    In a far future I will change these as well against a 5 axis Head with an additional Dividing head.
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    Last edited by uli12us; 08-11-2015 at 06:36 PM.

  2. #2
    hello uli12us,
    I too have a boxford HMC which is mechanically excellent but I have started to change the system over to run on mach 3 using cs labs 6 axis motion controller
    but I am really stuck as I have no wiring diagram or information, I have tried for months on the net to find info but I don't see any out there, do you have any?
    I will post some pics of my electrical cabinet today, I see you have no table on the B axis I could send you the dimensions if you need them.
    chris w

  3. #3
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 10 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 5,902. Received thanks 920 times, giving thanks to others 37 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    I have started to change the system over to run on mach 3 using cs labs 6 axis motion controller
    but I am really stuck as I have no wiring diagram or information, I have tried for months on the net to find info but I don't see any out there, do you have any?
    Boxfords are terrible for Docs, they basicly don't want you messing but ringing them instead.!!

    But that said they are nothing special and with a little back tracking of wiring you can workout what's what easy enough. I'm no expert on Boxfords with only limited experience with them but Post some good clear Pics and I'm sure we can get you going easy enough.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 21-11-2015 at 12:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Thanks for response jazzcnc, I am struggling to get the spindle wiring done i don't understand the 3 small relays apart from one of them is for the splash guards and one for the spindle forward then the relay on its own next to the spindle drive is the reversing relay.
    the large contractor seems to be for system enable?? As when I power on and press a green button it then makes.
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    I know it looks untidy but I been pulling the wires out to trace them and then mark them up,
    chris w.

  5. #5
    Chris, I have the table and a double bracket with small Vice for the machine, but first I have dismantled all, to see if the guides are ok, how is all build and so on. I will try to remove the ratchet from the rotating axe and add a small bicycle brake so I can move not only in 45 steps. Maybe later, I will add a 5th axe and can machine parts nearly complete. If I add some
    highgrade connectors, then I can change different slides, because the parts are not really heavy.

    Unfortunately, I don't have any documents for the machine, I asked Boxford before but they write, the machine is to old and really rare, so they haven't any documents, parts or anything else. I write to the school, from where the machine is, but got no answer til now. What number has your machine, mine is 4209, where I think 420 is the series and 9 is the machine number.

    I can explain the 3 small relay under the big Relay (which is actuated, when you press the green button on the right sife of the cabinet and released with e-Stop at the buttontable and the red bar under the machine)

    The first is actuated, when the front doors are closed, if the doors are opened, no move, whether axis nor spindle is possible.

    the second starts and stops the spindle motor via the lenze driver.

    the third, next to the big one, changes the direction of the spindle. 2=CW 2+3=CCW

    But I haven't any clue what is the function of the single white relay, (your Pic3 below Lenze driver) I suppose, it's for the tool turret, that is only a geared DC-Motor who turns the tooldisc 1/8 turn and stops, when the switch came to the hole on the underside of the disc.

    I've got a wiring diagram for the 190 VMC from another colleage from here, that I can send you, but thats not complete, because this machines have only 3axis instead 4. The only difference is a different Stepper drive ST-Electronic DS-200 integrated package, and only one fast serial Board for connection to the drivers. All others seem the same.
    Last edited by uli12us; 22-11-2015 at 01:55 PM.

  6. #6
    Uli12us, my machine 4208! Wow,
    but I wish I had the nice wiring that is in your pictures, I have managed to see where the feed to the relays comes from I can see that in your pics.
    Can you please take me a picture of the RL1 from above so I can see if there is wiring missing from the relay base, if you can send me the 3 axis drawings that would be great, I wonder if I should put a Fuji frenic or similar drive in because that would save the need for some of this wiring especially the spindle reverse!
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    Can you identify the wire that my screwdriver is pointing to or more important is where it goes to?
    i want to fit homing switches on x,y&z and a probe to set tool lengths but I am a long way from that yet, eventually I will be engraving the odd clock face and milling some fancy little clock parts on this baby!
    i took the tool turret off the machine for somewhere to put my laptop!!

    thanks for your help,
    chris w.

  7. #7
    I have some big trays for the machine to put the computer, Monitor, Keyboard and from 1995
    maybe a big box of Diskettes on it, anyway, I want the toolcarousel and hope I can upgrade it to a 2nd disc, eventually if to room is sufficient, I'll try to add a ATC for it. Can it help, if you have the manual for the Lenze driver, I must see, if I have it in english instead german as well.
    Last edited by uli12us; 22-11-2015 at 01:58 PM.

  8. #8
    I have kept the disc with the tapers and numbers on it so I can identify the tools but my thoughts were if it's not an ATC then it's pointless!
    i could use the google interpret web page for translation.
    and I can look at the pictures.
    thanks.

  9. #9
    The screwdriver should be the hot wire from mains Plug, the next is the neutral wire, but I don't know, how its made, that the hot wire comes always to the hot wire plug, we in Germany have a mains plug, that can entry in 2 positions, I don't know if in Britain the hot wire must be always in the same position. Long time ago, i have a neighbor from britain, he had a radio or something that won't work, i had just turned the plug and it runs.
    the next 2 wires goes to the motor, the last 2 unconnected are for a Motor with solenoid instead a permanent magnet.

    With tools, they have all nearly the same length ok, but if you have tools with different lengths, the toolturret is much safer
    Last edited by uli12us; 21-11-2015 at 10:58 PM.

  10. #10
    JAZZCNC's Avatar
    Lives in wakefield, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 10 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 5,902. Received thanks 920 times, giving thanks to others 37 times.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris w View Post
    Thanks for response jazzcnc, I am struggling to get the spindle wiring done i don't understand the 3 small relays apart from one of them is for the splash guards and one for the spindle forward then the relay on its own next to the spindle drive is the reversing relay.
    the large contractor seems to be for system enable?? As when I power on and press a green button it then makes.
    The White Relay next to Speed controller is a Push Pull relay or Latching Relay. It has two coils A & B which latch it in either position so when power is removed the contacts stay latched in that position, in your case FOR or REV.
    If you lift the clear flap on the top you'll see a little red switch this allows you to change one set of contacts from NO or NC. IE: A coil controls NO and B-NC and vise versa.
    The smaller relay is used to switch these coils depending on Direction and is what you would control with M3/M4 using the Outputs from CSlabs.

    Word of warning regards Cslabs Analog speed Output. Check out if the Lenze speed Ref input is isolated because if not then it will damage the Cslabs controller.
    If not then you need an isolation circuit or provide a Speed Ref voltage from an Isolated source. Despite the Cslabs manual reading and actually saying it's Outputs are Isolated I know 100% the Analog Speed Ref Output isn't and if the Lenze is at Mains potential then it will fry the Cslabs unit.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 22-11-2015 at 09:57 AM.

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