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  1. #21
    As there are 2 power inputs into the box, the fuses are built into the 10A Chassis power input sockets. Not sure why i would need any more.
    One for the VFD and one for the 48v power supply.

    I am confident i can wire it ok.

    Yes E'stop mounts on the front and wires into the breakout board directly. However you've made me think now about E stopping the spindle as well.

    Does yours do that. Is that what you mean when you say i will need a relay ?

    Obviously if i could get away with using this box i would like to as i have bought it now.

    I was planning on having male / female screw on glands on the front of the box for the steppers to connect to, so the box can be separated.

    Just seen this which is even tighter.
    http://s26.postimg.org/3rqeewhcp/image.jpg

    However he has got partitions which i think is a good idea.
    Thanks
    Martin
    Last edited by mturneruk; 26-11-2015 at 01:46 PM.

  2. #22
    Just seen this which is even tighter.
    http://s26.postimg.org/3rqeewhcp/image.jpg

    However he has got partitions which i think is a good idea.
    Does that mean it's good.
    Martin I don't often give negative comments but you seem to be blinkered I don't understand why are you asking questions and not taking any guidance there are plenty of reasons you need space. The Estop can be connect to the BOB but that is only controlling the emergency with software and is dangerous.

    .
    I suggest you read some of the excellent build logs on here to get an idea in what is needed to build a safe and reliable machine.
    ..Clive

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    As there are 2 power inputs into the box, the fuses are built into the 10A Chassis power input sockets. Not sure why i would need any more.
    Why do you think each electrical item in your house has it's own fuse.? Why not just rely on the Main Breaker in the consumer unit.?
    Think about and it's obvious.!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    I am confident i can wire it ok.
    The above statement contradicts this slightly.!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    Yes E'stop mounts on the front and wires into the breakout board directly. However you've made me think now about E stopping the spindle as well.
    Wiring to the BOB is Not Safe. EMERGENCY STOP is exactly that and should remove all power when pressed. Wiring direct to the BOB is only in forming Software to stop the program or at best drop Motor outputs which isn't safe.
    Correctly done then E-stop will remove power to every electrical item so VFD is included. Don't confuse E-stop with Limits etc they are and should treat different.
    Creating a Safe E-stop isn't difficult or expensive so there no real reason why not to do it correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    Obviously if i could get away with using this box i would like to as i have bought it now.

    I was planning on having male / female screw on glands on the front of the box for the steppers to connect to, so the box can be separated.

    Just seen this which is even tighter.
    http://s26.postimg.org/3rqeewhcp/image.jpg

    However he has got partitions which i think is a good idea.
    Martin just because someone else has done it wrong doesn't mean you should too.!! . . . What he's not saying or maybe not aware of YET is that the Heat is killing his drives slowly and there life span will be considerably shorter in there unless he's got Lots of Cooling.
    The potential for problems is hugely increased due to heat, missed steps, low performance strange lock-ups and all sorts of other wierd and wondeful thigns can happen because of heat and the often new CNC users arnt even aware of them because they know no different.
    When the reality is there machine is being strangled in some way or they waste money buying bigger motors or drives etc thinking there missed steps or rough running motors is due to them when it's not.

    Heat sends Electrical items Bonkers at best, Kills them at worst.!!

    Space for EMF isn't such a big deal provided Grounding is correct and routing of wires is done sensibly

    My advise is look around at what others have done or ask and LISTEN to what is said by experienced builders. Then do it correctly and don't cut corners other wise it will cost you more money in long run and be painful experience in the process.!!
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 26-11-2015 at 02:30 PM.

  4. #24
    Jazz. Obviously I am listening. I am reading every word 5 times!
    Obviously I am working within a budget, but I want to do things safely, and I admit I no electronics engineer, so i am asking for help...

    I still can't understand the need for additional breakers or fuses in the box when the chassis power connectors have fuses built in.

    On my last machine i had the E-stop wired to my BOB, however i was using a router which had it's own on / off switch. The VFD seems to of complicated everything massively.
    So i would appreciate you telling me how i could wire a safe E-Stop.

    Chatting to that chap about his cramped case, he said he had 2 48V fans which keep everything cool and it had all been running fine for 2 years plus.
    I was thinking i would do the same.

    None of you are saying i would have an EMI issue, rather more a heat issue which should be able to be controlled with fans, should it not.
    Thanks again.
    Martin

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    I still can't understand the need for additional breakers or fuses in the box when the chassis power connectors have fuses built in.
    Ok Ill explain. So your Incoming Chasis power has you call it is providing power to the drives which all pull a certain amount of current. Lets say 4A each then you have other items possibly pulling off it taking few amps more so your Incoming suppy needs to be fuse rated to handle all this load plus a little spare so it will probably have 13A fuse.
    Now what happens if say one motors blows up and shorts out.? Then drive will Pump current to that motor upto the Max the PSU can provide or until the fuse blows which will be much more than 13A. Now the drive is only rated upto 7A so it goes up in flames.!!! . . . Well not really but it does release the Magic smoke and your out of Pocket 50 just because you didn't fit a 50P fuse.. .

    I will help you to do this correctly but I'm a little busy just now but I will come back with a Diagram to help.

    Edit: Give me a list of everything your putting in the Case.

    Regards Space then yes it's mostly heat related so if your sure you can remove the heat correctly then fine but just because he's not had problems doesn't mean you won't. Electrical components need a certain amount of air flow to cool correctly and any restrictions on cooling will have an affect long term. Or on performance.!!
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 26-11-2015 at 03:25 PM.

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  7. #26
    Thanks Jazz

    I am after simple and safe!
    I understand how to wire the steppers. Just not 100% on the e-stop, additional fuses you mentioned or grounding.

    2 x chassis power connectors (plugging into 2 plugs).
    1 x EMI Filter on VFD Supply.
    1 x VFD

    1 x 48v Power supply
    4 x stepper drivers
    1 x UC300 USb motion controller
    1 x KK01 Breakout board

    1 x Estop
    2 x 48v Fans

    That's it.
    Last edited by mturneruk; 26-11-2015 at 03:42 PM.

  8. #27
    The Estop should ideally be wired to an emergency relay, that will cut off the AC going to the 48V power supply and also the VFD.
    It will also send a signal to the Bob that the Estop has been activated.

    Connecting the Estop to the BOB and having your software control the Estop is a no no.

    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    Thanks Jazz

    I am after simple and safe!
    I understand how to wire the steppers. Just not 100% on the e-stop, additional fuses you mentioned or grounding.

    2 x chassis power connectors (plugging into 2 plugs).
    1 x EMI Filter on VFD Supply.
    1 x VFD

    1 x 48v Power supply
    4 x stepper drivers
    1 x UC300 USb motion controller
    1 x KK01 Breakout board

    1 x Estop
    2 x 48v Fans

    That's it.

  9. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by mturneruk View Post
    I am after simple and safe!
    I understand how to wire the steppers. Just not 100% on the e-stop, additional fuses you mentioned or grounding.
    Ok but you will need a few more bits.! . . . Nothing expensive but important to have. Momentery Reset Button and Some Relays. Plus if you want a best noise immunity then a 24V PSU.
    I also suggest you buy a 5V PSU and power the Uc300 and KK01 from this and don't rely on USB to provide power. This will give you a much more stable system.

    The VFD doesn't actually need to be pluged into another plug either if you don't want. I think your probably doing this because of something I said before but miss understood what I meant.?
    When I said ideally Run the VFD on It's own Mains Line. I ment on separate Ring Main line not Different Plug line. All your sockets in the room and possibly house will run off the same Ring Main line so doesn't really matter if in same wall socket or across the room in another socket any noise will transfer to/from the VFD to other devices if bad.
    Often this isn't possible or practical and why I said "Ideally" so in your case if you like you can just run from one plug socket. Then we Fuse them separate in the case.

    This is what others are trying to tell you in that by the time you have put in these extra Fuses, relays etc which are minimum and needed for a truely safe system then you probably won't have enough room.!!
    Also Don't let anyone tell you that Software driven E-stop system is safe and you don't need relays etc because it isn't and they are idiots to run without it for what little it costs to do right.
    Last edited by JAZZCNC; 26-11-2015 at 04:18 PM.

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  11. #29
    Martin, don't underestimate how much more powerful this machine will be compared to your last one. When I built my machine I had it upright on it's end whilst I was attaching the Ali base. Whilst it was there I stood on the gantry and just like unscrewing a bottle top was able to turn the ballscrew and lift my weight (19.5 stone) with no effort at all. Now I know that if I accidentally get an arm/finger/leg(!!??) stuck/trapped whilst trying to hold something down (I know, I know, I know you shouldn't do it but.....) then I know for sure that if I press the E-stop I want it to stop dead 100% guaranteed...not be reliant on software to do it for me....

    It all comes down to what you want to do safety wise really, have you given any thought to what you want the machine to do in the event of a brown trouser moment? As Dean says, for another 30 or 40 you can have a much safer system.
    Last edited by njhussey; 26-11-2015 at 04:42 PM.
    Neil...

    Build log...here

  12. #30
    Here's what I have so far...

    Plan is to put 2 50mm fans in the top of the case which will blow air directly onto the drivers / VFD into the case and out through the side / bottom vents.
    I have mounted the control panel from the VFD on the front of the case.
    I may leave the front cover of the VFD to allow more air into it.

    This case is easy to work on as you can detach panels and put them back as required.
    I wish it was a bit bigger, but as long as you think I wont suffer from EMI issues, then hopefully i will get away with it.
    You may of course completely disagree.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cheers
    Martin

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