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  1. #1
    Hi all,

    My name is Argiris and I am from Athens, Greece. I am a pilot flying for Ryanair but also a hobbyist handy with power tools, computers and arduinos. My cnc experience is a scratch built 3d printer so basically a total newb.

    Having my month off in coming January I was all set to build the Joe's cnc evolution machine.

    The idea was to build a cnc router for personal use in a small farm in Corfu island that it will be able to cut a full plywood sheet but also be able to do some slow and rough cuttings in aluminum and maybe steel(small parts).

    The base was to be welded steel tube and x,y-axis aluminum extrusions with angle iron bolted on them and v bearings
    sliding on the angle iron.

    Searching for epoxy leveling I run in to your forum and it is like a hard reset pressed. I have to start all over again by reading and learning all the new things in this forum but at the same time I don't want my month off to go by so I would like to build the base .

    Can you please clarify few things for me so I will be on the right track?

    Do I need to go that big on the y-axis(long axis) to cut a large piece of plywood or can I do it in 2 steps keeping the long axis shorter ? In that case what size of cutting area is recommended? Would I gain benefits by keeping it short as far as rigidness and no need for rack and pinion?

    Rough cutting aluminum and steel is it doable or I should forget about it? Even at very slow speeds.

    Would I go ahead and build the base based on one of your proven designs thus taking advantage of my month off and think of the rest later when I will have more time reading and learning from you? Meaning step by step from ground up.

    Meanwhile I spoke to Vagelis(ba99297) member of your forum and he is already being a great help.

    Thank you all for your time and forgive my ignorance.

    Argiris

  2. #2
    Argiris

    welcome. Guess, all I can say here is be careful with your money. Lots of people here will vouch for me saying that spending money on "joes cnc kits and plans" will simply wet your apetite and lighten your wallet. You will make the machine, and it will cut material "for an amount time...." but what you will gain most is learning all the things that are repeatedly said on here in regard to the the flaws in both the design & materials its made of.


    http://www.joescnc.com/kitsplans.php

    Lots of people (myself included) make a machine to cut say half a sheet of ply, then quickly wish they had made a machine capable of accepting a full sheet.

    So, my advice, is do it once, do it right. Unless of course (being a pilot) you have money to play with :D


    If I was you, id make a machine with a length of say 2.6m, and a width of about 1.6m (a sheet of ply is 2.4 x 1.2) but you need to think of machining area. Make the y (gantry) the smaller measurement of the two, and look towards rack and pinion.

    Plan to make a good wood router, if you do a good enough job it will do a "ok" job at cutting ali from time to time, but forget steel.

    Happy to help with plans etc, once you give a clearer idea of what you plan (in terms of size)
    Last edited by kingcreaky; 11-12-2015 at 09:37 PM.

  3. #3
    Thank you Kingcreaky

    I was really lucky to ran into this forum just before I was about to start ordering parts. I can't judge Joe's cnc as I don't have the knowledge to do so but I will trust you all on that.

    Yes the idea is for a machine accepting a full sheet of ply (2.5 χ 1.22 ) so the cutting area should be slightly larger for clamps etc.
    Can anyone tell me the size of the base so I will not come short in the y(gantry) axis?

    As per suggestions in other threads 80 x 80 x 5 steel tubing is a good option. Adjustability on the top rails and epoxy leveling is the initial plan.If the rack and pinion is the preferred way for the long axis, will the racks be bolted on the side of the top rails? Any extra consideration for the top rails then?

    Help please

  4. #4
    Αργύρη καλωσόρισες.
    Και εγώ Έλληνας αλλα ξενιτεμένος χρόνια. Σάμιος στην καταγωγή.

    There are thankfully a number of suppliers on Greece that have rails and other parts but prices may be a bit high. With that in mind be prepared to spend 2000 euro plus if you want anything worth having.
    Is your aim to have a working machine or to learn how to make one? I would imagine that you may be able to find good used machines around if you just want to get cutting.

    Cutting wood and maybe aluminium is very different to cutting steel so wood machines may not be efficient at cutting steel, while steel machines will be too slow for wood and alu.


    Before buying anything design it. Get familiar with CAD you will need it later. There are powerful free packages like onshape or fusion360 that will allow you to theoretically build your machine. Most of the standard parts are available in CAD format so it is pretty quick to model things.

    Let us know how you get on and show us your progress

    Γιώργος
    https://emvioeng.com
    Machine tools and 3D printing supplies. Expanding constantly.

  5. #5
    Thank you George,

    I usually buy electronics from ebay and if I need aluminum from Misumi Europe.
    My aim is definitely to learn how to make one. I set up a budget around 3500 - 4000 euros.
    I was using sketchup before but now I am going to get a grip with fusion 360 for my 3d printing parts.

    I will try to design the base looking at others build threads hoping that I will find the answer to my question about the cutting area(width) somewhere in the forum. Then maybe I will get some helpful comments.

  6. #6
    Clive S's Avatar
    Lives in Marple   Stockport, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 14 Hours Ago Forum Superstar, has done so much to help others, they deserve a medal. Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 2,309. Received thanks 403 times, giving thanks to others 35 times. Made a monetary donation to the upkeep of the community. Is a beta tester for Machinists Network features.
    Quote Originally Posted by arg123 View Post
    Thank you George,

    I usually buy electronics from ebay and if I need aluminum from Misumi Europe.
    My aim is definitely to learn how to make one. I set up a budget around 3500 - 4000 euros.
    I was using sketchup before but now I am going to get a grip with fusion 360 for my 3d printing parts.

    I will try to design the base looking at others build threads hoping that I will find the answer to my question about the cutting area(width) somewhere in the forum. Then maybe I will get some helpful comments.
    If you add about 300mm to the length and about200mm to the width you won't be far wrong. When you draw it in cad you can check as it depends on what spacing's you use for your bearing blocks. Good luck with the build.
    Then maybe I will get some helpful comments
    And you haven't had some already
    Last edited by Clive S; 13-12-2015 at 04:14 PM.
    ..Clive
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by arg123 View Post
    Meanwhile I spoke to Vagelis(ba99297) member of your forum and he is already being a great help.
    Vagelis is a very nice man he also makes Great wine please say hello to him for me.!!

    With regards to your plans then my words of wisdom are Choose a sensible design don't go crazy regards build strength if all your mainly going to do is cut woods. Like has been said forget Steels and if you want best machine then I'll go further and say forget designing for Aluminium has well.?

    Machine built to cut all materials is always a compromise, woods, plastics and softer materials mostly come under the same design class regards strength and cutting but Aluminium starts taking you away from what is optimum for this class. Which means pushing you into stronger heavier designs which start having negative affects on the machines main usage along with other negatives like.? Expense, complexity, performance with very little if any gain.

    You don't need massive tube sizes and thick armoured plated tank like structures to cut woods etc. Aluminium needs it's own ideal design parameters and while it's possible to cut aluminium with a wood router it's very different to cutting aluminium correctly.
    The design considerations for Aluminium which are mostly strength and cooling related both have negative affect on soft materials cutting with huge affect on your wallet to do correctly to suit both materials.

    So design for wood is my advise and make it the best it can be for the intended purpose and leave the hard stuff for another build.!

    Also don't need to design in Cad to the last tiny detail because things in the real world have a habbit of not fitting like they do in Cad.!! So just layout the basics to confirm lenghts etc and the design works also major components don't clash with each other. This does mean that you need to design with accurate component models or ideal models of the actual parts your going to use. Often I see people design using generic models only to find reality bite them when they don't fit in the real world like they did in the Virtual world of Cad.!! . . . . It also wastes a lot of valuable time that will be better spent building and learning than drooling at computer screen.!!

    Good luck.!! . . . . . Oh and has the Lady's often find out Size really isn't everything it's how the tool is used which determines the pleasure.!. .

  8. #8
    When capital controls are in place and sending money abroad requires a bloody committee to approve, you try to make it right first time. Hence I see CAD being imperative in Argyris' case

    The comment of "Beware of freely available CAD models" is spot on. Not all Nema 23 motors are the same, not all extrusions are the same. Luckily Misumi allows you to download their CAD files.
    Best work to the drawings that tell you the expected tolerance.
    https://emvioeng.com
    Machine tools and 3D printing supplies. Expanding constantly.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by komatias View Post
    When capital controls are in place and sending money abroad requires a bloody committee to approve, you try to make it right first time. Hence I see CAD being imperative in Argyris' case
    George Read what I wrote again and you'll see I Didn't say DONT use Cad I said don't get bogged down in trying to design to last detail. It's not required at this level and often IME helping others it actually slows down the process of building. Many times it leads to errors because too much reliance is placed on the Models and Cad without much thought for real world influences and differences.!

  10. #10
    No argument with you Jazz and yes real world influences play a major role. I was just strongly reinforcing the need to plan and that tools are available for this.
    https://emvioeng.com
    Machine tools and 3D printing supplies. Expanding constantly.

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