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  1. #11
    Failure to respond to repeatedly stated valid issues with W10 - mandatory updates/life of hardware tells me you don't have answers but continue to post other crap trying to cover the fact that you don't have answers.

    Your "upgrade" is a free license for W10 for Microsoft's definition of "the life of your hardware", future upgrades will leave users with an OS which will not run on their hardware and the answer will be "end of 'support' life"
    You haven't paid for it and it is supplied "as is", when your computer is no longer supported you will buy another, even if your hardware is good.

    W10 is probably better for your limited use than what you've managed to use before, pompously stating that it is simply "better" than everything before is utter rubbish unless you add the caveat "for me", which you don't.

    Looks like plain English is hard to understand so I'll repeat W10 - mandatory updates(you can't decide and if it breaks your hardware/software you wait for a fix, if it ever comes) /life of hardware (as defined by Microsoft's support for your hardware) support for your license.

    You jumped in accusing me of failure to understand, in a way that's right, I don't understand why you don't understand, it's all fairly simple. Your statement that "roll back" to the previous operating system is simple is a cut and paste from Microsoft press releases, this is not the real world experience of users, many have rolled back to an unuseable system if you had actual knowledge of this you'd know that many roll-backs leave customers without software and hardware functionality and you would't be so irresponsible as to tout it as risk-free.

    In a nutshell you're posting rubbish and Microsoft marketing and touting it as truth, if you'd said it was best for some people you'd have been right but you didn't so you're wrong.

    Simple.
    Last edited by magicniner; 10-06-2016 at 01:48 PM. Reason: caveat miss-spelled
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  2. #12
    Lee Roberts's Avatar
    Lives in Wigan, United Kingdom. Current Activity: Viewing Moderator Control Panel Has been a member for 9-10 years. Has a total post count of 2,544. Received thanks 161 times, giving thanks to others 652 times. Made a monetary donation to the upkeep of the community. Referred 10 members to the community.
    Guys,

    I've stepped in to moderate this as a new thread from the original "Brain farts" thread, as while this discussion could be a worthwhile one to have, it's now off topic for the original thread and I think more polite if continued here.

    As a refresher on participating:


    .Me
    .Me

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  4. #13
    Neale's Avatar
    Lives in Plymouth, United Kingdom. Last Activity: 2 Hours Ago Has been a member for 4-5 years. Has a total post count of 1,000. Received thanks 170 times, giving thanks to others 5 times.
    I'm currently going through the Win7/Win10 debate with myself at the moment, and I could do with some clarification of one or two of the points raised here. I haven't sold my soul to Microsoft out of any kind of religious belief - I'm currently using LinuxCNC for my router - but the new machine will use a CSMIO external motion controller for various technical reasons which aren't relevant here. However, that means Mach3 or Mach4 (I'm going Mach3, but again that's not relevant here) and that in turns means Windows. Obviously, I'm going to be free of any 32-bit parallel port issues, so it's Win7/64 (which I already have on my garage PC dual-booting with the LCNC system) or upgrade to Win10. I have heard two issues mentioned which seem to be particularly relevant.

    1. Win10 will go off by itself and download and install upgrades. Is this true? What if you disconnect the network connection to the outside world? Will Win10 sit and sulk and refuse to play, or will it carry on running and defer any updates until the network reappears? Is this a way around the "it might stop and restart all by itself" problem for a machine running a router? I've only just (earlier today) upgraded my first PC, a laptop, to Win10 so I have no direct experience of this.

    2. Win10 might install updates which either break existing software, are themselves broken and hence can disable the machine, or are incompatible with older hardware. Or hardware that Microsoft decides that it doesn't like any more, however you wish to look at it. My garage PC is one I rebuilt recently with a fairly new AMD-based motherboard and a cheap but big-name graphics card, which are probably the most relevant bits to become obsolete. However, they are new enough that it seems unlikely that this will happen within a reasonable estimate of the hardware lifetime anyway. Before retirement, I spent the best part of 40 years in the IT industry, and I am aware that big customers were paranoid about the possibility of their applications breaking after an OS or application software update. However, as a home user, I can't remember this happening. OK, a new OS might break an application, but that's not quite the same thing. If I ran a business that was critically dependent on 24/7 system availability, I might take a different view but as a home/hobby user, how likely is this to happen? As a small business, should I worry that much, or just keep my production machine isolated? One of the main reasons why I like to run the latest version of any OS and keep it updated is that my speciality used to be around IT security, and one general recommendation for any system connected to anywhere else was to keep it updated with at least security updates; the feeling was that as soon as a fix was published, someone was going to reverse engineer it to create exploit code, so you needed the fix to try to stay on top of things.

    I look forward to comments for and against, but please, with reasoned arguments to support the position

  5. #14
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 17 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 508. Received thanks 68 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    1) Not sure about regular Windows 10, but you have two options in Windows 10 Pro.
    a) You can specify your network connection as "metered", and Windows won't download updates while connected to a metered connection.
    b) You can "defer" updates in Windows 10 Pro. http://www.computerworld.com/article...ws-10-pro.html

    2) Isn't this true of any version of Windows?
    I'm running Windows 7 Pro at work, and I can't update unless I want to spend $2500 for a new plotter that works with Windows 10.
    Does anyone seriously think that microsoft will come out with an update that makes hardware obsolete? Keep in mind that the vast majority of Windows users run pretty low spec machines.
    I have a few 10 year old software programs that work fine in Windows 10. If you want to run programs older than that, than you may want to hang on to your copy of XP.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
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  6. #15
    Microsoft have announced that future Intel processors will not support anything older than Windows 10.
    They also pushed W10 out as a "recommended" update so that thousands of people who don't want it.
    I wouldn't put anything past a set of utter shysters like that, they're as bad or worse liars and thieves than politicians.
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  7. #16
    Its a fact that w8 is faster than w7, and win10 is faster than w8. Yeas, i play games when i am tired of forums, machines, projects, etc..and know it for a fact from my experience with graphic heavy games.

    But there was nothing wrong with win7, i would say it was perfect. It's the windows that convinced me to stay with windows. Still have it on 2 pcs in the workshop. You know- mach3 serial port driver - win 32bit ....

    The w7, 8 and 10 are very stable and if one doesn't mess with pirated software and has ADBLOCk Plus on his browser, there is nothing to do months and years.
    project 1 , 2, Dust Shoe ...

  8. #17
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 17 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 508. Received thanks 68 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    Quote Originally Posted by magicniner View Post
    Microsoft have announced that future Intel processors will not support anything older than Windows 10.
    First, I'm not sure why one company would give press releases on another companies products.
    Second, why would they. Companies don't make new products to be compatible with old technology, unless that's there specific market.

    Go play with your Linux box and stop whining about Windows, since you obviously have an agenda.


    The w7, 8 and 10 are very stable
    There's really very little difference between them. Except that Microsoft screwed up the interface in 8, but you could fix it in 5 minutes, if you wanted to. I've been running 8.1 for 18 months, and have zero problems with it. I was hesitant to update to 10, until I got a new laptop with 10. It's almost the same as 8, but yes, it's faster.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

    Mach3 2010 Screenset

    JointCAM - CAM for Woodworking Joints

  9. #18
    I have a computer dedicated to evaluating Win 10 and it is for nothing else. My workhorse is Win 7 64bit and I have GWX installed to try and keep it W10 free. I certainly do not want to be sucked into Microshafts leased software business plan AND cloud based computing means you have to pay for internet access over and above your home broadband or free Wifi venues. No Ta !!!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    When my Win10 machine stops updating every time I switch it on, I may be able to reach a verdict on the OS, but until then I am keeping my reactionary bias to myself (?).

    In the meantime my CNC PC (and any future ones) will remain on a stripped down XP (no internet gateway and no unnecessary software).

    Please chaps, keep a little dignity on the forum!
    Last edited by cropwell; 11-06-2016 at 09:43 AM.
    Albert Einstein may have been a genius, but his brother Frank, was a monster

    Sent from my clunky old Windows 7 Machine

  10. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ger21 View Post
    First, I'm not sure why one company would give press releases on another companies products.
    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/micros...ews-52211.html

    http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/16/10...essors-skylake

    If you read you will find that what Microsoft have taken the decision to do is force early obsolescence on their older operating systems within their stated support life by ensuring the processors in new PCs will not run them.
    It's not referred to in the industry as a Wintel platform for nothing, they might not be married but they are definitely in bed ;-)

    Comparing a new version of Windows on a new laptop to an old version of Windows one on an old laptop is like comparing a new fuel in a new car to an old fuel in an old one, meaningless, of course something in newer faster hardware will be faster!

    - Nick

    Mach3 on W7 BTW, no cigar! ;-)
    You think that's too expensive? You're not a Model Engineer are you? :D

  11. #20
    Ger21's Avatar
    Lives in Detroit, United States. Last Activity: 17 Hours Ago Has been a member for 5-6 years. Has a total post count of 508. Received thanks 68 times, giving thanks to others 0 times. Referred 1 members to the community.
    If you read you will find that what Microsoft have taken the decision to do is force early obsolescence on their older operating systems within their stated support life by ensuring the processors in new PCs will not run them.
    What percentage of PC buyers intend on running an older OS on their new PC? I'd think that it's much less than 1%.

    Comparing a new version of Windows on a new laptop to an old version of Windows one on an old laptop is like comparing a new fuel in a new car to an old fuel in an old one, meaningless, of course something in newer faster hardware will be faster!
    Except that I'm comparing an $800 laptop running 10, to a $3000 desktop running 8.1.

    Mach3 on W7 BTW, no cigar! ;-)
    I would say that most new Mach3 users in the last 3-5 years are running 7, and a lot are now running Mach3 on 10.
    Gerry
    ______________________________________________
    UCCNC 2017 Screenset

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