Irregular Spindle Speed

[HipoPapi]

Hello everyone I really hope somebody can help us.

We Have a Chinese built CNC that was originally equipped with an ER32 7.5 kw, 10.2 HP Colombo Spindle that we needed to send for servicing as we had problems with the threads on the collet.
Due to the quick turnaround that we needed the Chinese company sent us a Chinese spindle until they send us an other Colombo as the machine originally came with a spare spindle.
The spindle they sent us is a HQD 6.0 Kw ER32 spindle. Please see attached pictures.
After installing the new spindle we can't get it to work on a constant speed. Please see attached video.
Originally we have been controlling the spindle straight from Mach3 with no problems whatsoever but since installing the new one Mach 3 is acting funny as well throwing a soft limit error shortly after a program start.
We have been through a lot of settings with the Chinese support and us trying different settings but with no luck so far
Any questions and answers are welcome as we would really like to have this machine up end running.

Thanks in advance

BoX

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZopW...ature=youtu.be

[JAZZCNC]

First have wired the spindle in Delta not Star.? The VFD is 380V so the Spindle needs to be wired Star.
Edit: Strike that because looking again the other pic looks like from spindle not VFD.

So are you using 1ph or 3ph input.? If 1ph then wire in Delta if 3ph then wire Star.

Second measure the voltage coming for the speed control to VFD. Does it Pulse.? Will be either 0-5v or 0-10v depending on VFD/Speed controller.
To check the VFD get power source between 1-10v (if 0-10v speed control) ie 9V battery and swap for wires coming from speed control. If you have stable speed then it's the speed control that's causing the pulsing.

The Strange Mach3 happenings will be coinsidence because nothing related to the spindle can or will affect Softlimits. Only thing that could possibly be throwing unexplained errors is electrical noise and this would be on the hardwired limits not softlimits.

[HipoPapi]

First have wired the spindle in Delta not Star.? The VFD is 380V so the Spindle needs to be wired Star.
Edit: Strike that because looking again the other pic looks like from spindle not VFD.

So are you using 1ph or 3ph input.? If 1ph then wire in Delta if 3ph then wire Star.

Second measure the voltage coming for the speed control to VFD. Does it Pulse.? Will be either 0-5v or 0-10v depending on VFD/Speed controller.
To check the VFD get power source between 1-10v (if 0-10v speed control) ie 9V battery and swap for wires coming from speed control. If you have stable speed then it's the speed control that's causing the pulsing.

The Strange Mach3 happenings will be coinsidence because nothing related to the spindle can or will affect Softlimits. Only thing that could possibly be throwing unexplained errors is electrical noise and this would be on the hardwired limits not softlimits.

Hi Jazz and thanks for your help.

You are dealing with some wiring dummies here so please excuse me for asking some dummy questions.
I have found a diagram depicting the star and delta wiring methods and will study it although do you think that the new spindle needs a new kind of wiring as we thought is generally the same as the old one.

Also when you say measure the speed control voltage do you mean it on the wires My red arrow is pointing to in the attached image?

Also if we don't get far in resolving this problem would you be able to visit us and give us a hand in sorting this problem. We are based in Vauxhall London.

Thanks,

BoX

[JAZZCNC]

The spindle is dual voltage so can be run 220v or 380V. This is determined by how you connect the wire terminals on the spindle NOT the VFD.
So if your Spindle was lasted used on 380v Three phase supply then it will be wired in Star config. If used on 220V single or three phase supply it will wired Delta.
If your Supply is 220V Single phase then you need spindle config to be Delta.

Regards the wires then I cannot tell you from that picture. On the VFD they will be marked so thing like ACM & V1 or Gnd & V1 or Gnd & A1 depending on type of speed controller.
If your not sure what doing then suggest you don't go poking around because some speed controllers can be at Mains potential and very dangerous.
Sorry I'm too far away to help.

If you send better pics of spindle inside the cover I can probably tell you if Star or Delta. Like wise if send better pics of VFD or The board I can tell you which wires to measure from but if your not confident with electrickery then still suggest you seek advise or help from someone who is.

[JAZZCNC]

Ok just looked at your pictures again and starting to make sense now what the problem is.!
If the second Picture is the replacement then won't work. The new spindle is not dual voltage so can't work on single phase 220v. Will only work on 3 phase 380V supply.

[HipoPapi]

The spindle is dual voltage so can be run 220v or 380V. This is determined by how you connect the wire terminals on the spindle NOT the VFD.
So if your Spindle was lasted used on 380v Three phase supply then it will be wired in Star config. If used on 220V single or three phase supply it will wired Delta.
If your Supply is 220V Single phase then you need spindle config to be Delta.

Regards the wires then I cannot tell you from that picture. On the VFD they will be marked so thing like ACM & V1 or Gnd & V1 or Gnd & A1 depending on type of speed controller.
If your not sure what doing then suggest you don't go poking around because some speed controllers can be at Mains potential and very dangerous.
Sorry I'm too far away to help.

If you send better pics of spindle inside the cover I can probably tell you if Star or Delta. Like wise if send better pics of VFD or The board I can tell you which wires to measure from but if your not confident with electrickery then still suggest you seek advise or help from someone who is.

Thanks again Jazz,

Will wait for my colleague to come in later and will take some better pictures for you as I think that is the only workable route since you don't fancy a trip to London. We do have confidence and are quite good at taking anything apart though :)
We have already tried contacting all the companies that we could find in the UK but no luck so far as most don't work with mach3 or simply are not interested as the machine was not built by them. On the other hand the Chinese support proves to be quite difficult due to the 8 hours time difference and the even bigger language barrier. Basically we have been trying to sort this problem out with them for over a month now.

Thanks again and will try to post those pictures later.

BoX

[HipoPapi]

Hi There Jazz,

I had to take yesterday off but managed to take some better quality pictures today.

I have attached some and hope they are useful but if you need any specific pictures including screenshots from Mach3 please let me know as it seems will have to sort the problem our self's. All the Chinese support does is trying to push us to install nc studio instead of mach3 saying that the guy who built our machine and had mach3 experience has left their workplace.

Thanks again and have a good evening.

BoX

[HipoPapi]

Thanks Jazz,

That means we are one step closer to resolving this issue.
From the uploaded pictures would you be able to point out the wires I have to check the voltage on?
As mentioned earlier the Colombo also has a slight irregularity of about 10 herts up and down but the Chinese spindle has about 150 to 200 herts. But now that I think about it I remember that when under load with a large tool the Colombo was doing something similar although we never checked the screen on the VFD back then.

Thanks again and have a good night.

BoX


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[HipoPapi]

Hello there,

Any thoughts on which wires we have to check for the 5v or 10v constant power also have you managed to take a look at the xml file.

Also has anyone got any experience using NCstudio as the Chinese support thinks that that would fix our problem and if nothing else works out we are willing to give it a go but would be good to know how it compares with Mach3. We are used to mach3 as we have it on the other machine as well and love the flexibility it offers.

Thanks again.

Box

[JAZZCNC]

Ok the wires you want to measure are ACM and V1. I suggest you try this at the board with wires removed. Then at the VFD end to verify getting same voltage.

To test Put meter black Probe to ACM and Red to V1 then command a speed of half your MAX spindle speed. It should read 5v or very close.

The spindle is using pulley #4 in Mach which is to 12000rpm this means mach will scale the output 0-10 voltage from this. IE: if you command 6000rpm it outptus 5v and if 12000rpm then 10v but commanding 18000rpm will just get you pulley ratio warning.
So if your spindle MAX rpm is 18000 then setting pulley ratio #4 to 18000 means mach will scale the output so 10v is given at 18000rpm.

I've looked at the spindle setup in Ports&pins and it's turned on but without more details of the Spindle board then can't say if correct or not. Looking at the Spindle Output in Motor tuning I would say it doesn't look like it's setup correctly but like say need to know more about spindle board to be sure.

Testing the 0-10v voltage will give you best clue if it is or not.