Temperamental spindle

[mark84]

Hi,
a few years ago JazzCNC built me a router, however this last year I've had a reoccurring issue- the spindle either stops after a few mins, or more typically just doesn't start, the VFD has no reaction to mach3, even hammering the spindle button on mach3 has rarely worked.
Normally it's just a minor niggle - I leave it for switched off an hour and it magically works again (any less than an hour and it doesn't!?) but today it did 4 mins work and then decided no more, and the VFD hasn't reacted to mach3 since.
I've tried2 PC's, and changed the Ethernet cable, but neither has made a difference.
I'm not too technically minded, but maybe someone can help (Dean??)- I have taken a pic of the VFD, I've no idea why!
All I can tell you is the taped off wire is because the water pump was playing up a while ago and so I disconnected it- it's not made much difference as I haven't run any long toolpaths since, and it's sadly not corrected the issue!
Cheers for any thoughts, it's been a stressful day!
Mark22665

[Clive S]

OK Mark Have you tried shorting the FOR (green/yellow wire) and the DCM (black wire) terminals together.

Remove them from the terminal block and link the two terminals. the motor then should run. That will prove if the relay on the bob is faulty

[mark84]

OK Mark Have you tried shorting the FOR (green/yellow wire) and the DCM (black wire) terminals together.

Remove them from the terminal block and link the two terminals. the motor then should run. That will prove if the relay on the bob is faulty

Clive, thanks so much for the detailed reply. I tried what you said, the vfd tried to accelerate up presumably too fast and makes the distinct click of a circuit breaker or similar, presumably because it misses the speed, however, as I power it down and a second click is heard as the vfd releases the spindle very briefly spins. I'm not sure where to go from here.
Thanks again for the reply Clive, it's much appreciated

[Clive S]

Clive, thanks so much for the detailed reply. I tried what you said, the vfd tried to accelerate up presumably too fast and makes the distinct click of a circuit breaker or similar, presumably because it misses the speed, however, as I power it down and a second click is heard as the vfd releases the spindle very briefly spins. I'm not sure where to go from here.
Thanks again for the reply Clive, it's much appreciated

So if I understand what you are saying. With the FOR and DCM (without the original wires connected) the spindle powered up, If then you remove the link the spindle should stop. If that is the case then check the original cables from the FOR and DCM back to the BOB and makes sure the connections are secure. A picture of the bob might help

[mark84]

So if I understand what you are saying. With the FOR and DCM (without the original wires connected) the spindle powered up, If then you remove the link the spindle should stop. If that is the case then check the original cables from the FOR and DCM back to the BOB and makes sure the connections are secure. A picture of the bob might help

Hi Clive,
I can't actually locate the breakout board, I've taken a pic of the whole cabinet, if you could spot it that'd be great!! Sorry about the bother. 22671

[Clive S]

Ok I think that the two cables that go to the vfd that control the spindle stop/start are the one's that I have put a red ring around.

Make a note of which terminals they are connected to. Then disconnect them and check them for continuity to the vfd FOR/DCM if necessary remake the connections.

I have never used that controller but I can see Dean's influence in there .

22672

[mark84]

Ok I think that the two cables that go to the vfd that control the spindle stop/start are the one's that I have put a red ring around.

Make a note of which terminals they are connected to. Then disconnect them and check them for continuity to the vfd FOR/DCM if necessary remake the connections.

I have never used that controller but I can see Dean's influence in there .

22672


Thanks Clive, i'll check it out when I'm home later :D Your help is very appreciated.
Any idea why Dean isn't around by the way, I notice his account hasn't been used in months? Hopefully he is well.

[mark84]

I couldn't find any issues with the wiring, though I've taken the connections out and cleaned them before tightening up again, and it's working, I'm unsure if that's just coincidental but at least it's ok for now.
If the problem keeps happening could I move the connection to the next port across?
Thanks for your help Clive :)

[Clive S]

I couldn't find any issues with the wiring, though I've taken the connections out and cleaned them before tightening up again, and it's working, I'm unsure if that's just coincidental but at least it's ok for now.
If the problem keeps happening could I move the connection to the next port across?
Thanks for your help Clive :)

Mark Not sure what you mean by "next port across" if you mean the next terminal I would have to look into the manual as I am not familiar with he CS labs board. Let us know if it has been cured after a few hour of use.

[routercnc]

Clive
I've just read post #3 and to me it does not sound like joining FOR and DCM is running the spindle all the time. Have a read and see if you agree.

Mark,
When you connected FOR and DCM the spindle briefly accelerated then cut out. It remained stationary until you disconnected FOR and DCM at which point nothing happened until the electronics had 'spooled down' to a low rpm at which point the spindle burst into life and tracked the speed down to zero. As if there is a dead spot above a very low rpm at which the spindle will not turn. Is this what you observed?

If I got this wrong please carry on. If not suggests VFD is faulty or has wrong settings?

[Clive S]

I am all ears. I was trying to establish if the the relay contact on the board (or control system) had gone wonky.
shorting FOR and DCM should start the spindle I hope:confusion:

Problem is it is, always ambiguous when trying to sort problems out at a distance. I would like to know the outcome to the problem that way we all learn and can help one another.
It could well be that the vfd has packed up.

[routercnc]

I hear you. Difficult to diagnose over a forum, much quicker if you were there in person.
I'd only just read this thread and had to comment in case Mark messed around with the control cabinet without absolutely confirming FOR and DCM did not run the spindle.
I have a sinking feeling this is a new VFD but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Mark, if you can confirm the above, the next steps would be to check the settings on the VFD. I'd be surprised if Dean set this up wrong so maybe you accidentally altered one of them? I'm no VFD expert but maybe you set a current limit? Have a read here, post #6, and see how your settings compare:
http://www.mycncuk.com/threads/5814-The-2-2Kw-Chinese-Spindles-Info-Setup-and-Advice-More

[Clive S]

I'd only just read this thread and had to comment in case Mark messed around with the control cabinet without absolutely confirming FOR and DCM did not run the spindle.
I have a sinking feeling this is a new VFD but lets not get ahead of ourselves.


I agree but I thought in post #4 I tried to establish that he had just removed the two cables from the vfd end and put a link in place. (to prove if the vfd would run)

I also agree that if it is a new vfd then the settings WILL be the problem.

[routercnc]

I also agree that if it is a new vfd then the settings WILL be the problem.

Sorry Clive I've confused you. I meant he may need to buy a new VFD. As I understand it this is the original one the Dean installed.

[mark84]

Hi gentlemen,
thanks for all the posts.
Apologies for me taking my time, I've used the router a few times since last post, and all seemed well, until today- when it's back with a vengeance.
It took four attempts but the spindle came to life, however it stopped- without cause after 2 mins.

Once again I'm having to wait- I believe this may be a clue to the issue- the fact I have to wait several hours until the spindle will run again. This is the original VFD, installed by dean. routerCNC, in regards to your question about the behaviour of the spindle when FOR and DCM were connected, technically it didn't power the spindle up- however, I would say it was successful as it made a 'click' - something the VFD has always done- Dean told me this was something in the VFD to do with acceleration, and from day 1 it's always been a little coy at starting up at very slow (sub 6krpm) or very fast (over 20k) speeds, usually taking a few attempts, though it's never been a big deal. I assume short circuiting it in that way makes it power up to full speed, at which point it does what it would have always done, and clicks(think this click would be a MCB?) and prevents the spindle from running.
This isn't what is happening at the moment- I hit the spindle button on mach3 and it's totally unresponsive, the VFD sits there happily blinking away, no MCB noise, no power to the spindle.
I know it's a bit confusing, hope I've at least done an ok job of explaining it :(

[mark84]

The vfd settings:
Pd5-400
Pd4-400
Pd3-200.01
Pd6-002.50
Pd7-0.50
Pd8-220
Pd9-015.0
Pd11-01.20
Pd14-0.3
Pd15-1.0
Pd72-400
Pd143-05.0
Pd142-5.0
Pd144-3000

Thanks so much :)

[mark84]

Sorry Clive I've confused you. I meant he may need to buy a new VFD. As I understand it this is the original one the Dean installed.

I was curious, is it possible to set the spindle speed on the vfd, and start it up, at least if I could do that I could do some milling without fear of another broken end mill!?
The router has never had heavy usage, I can't reliably say total hours used, but it's likely a typical week it's in use an hour, over the past 3(??) Years.

[mark84]

Hi,
Sorry for my wall of text, I misunderstood the original instructions about joining For and Dcm, I didn't think you meant with mach 3 connected.
I can confirm that connecting these two and starting the toolpath does bring the spindle to life, disconnecting the two while the spindle is running stops it, and simply pressing the spindle off via mach3 slows it(but doesn't stop it fully) to about 70rpm.

[Clive S]

The vfd settings:
Pd5-400
Pd4-400
Pd3-200.01
Pd6-002.50
Pd7-0.50
Pd8-220
Pd9-015.0
Pd11-01.20
Pd14-0.3
Pd15-1.0
Pd72-400
Pd143-05.0
Pd142-5.0
Pd144-3000

Thanks so much :)

Pd 143 should be set to 2 its hard to believe it ever started with this set to 5
Pd 3 set to 400
Pd 11 I would set to 55 so that the lowest spindle speed would be about 3300
Pd 14 set to 2
Pd 15 set to 2
Pd 7 set to 1.5
Pd 142 set to 7 (if 2.2kw)

Try these and report back

[mark84]

Thank you, Clive. It'll be a few days, but I'll keep you informed.

[mark84]

I've used the router for an hour with no issue, thank you very much for all the replies, especially you, Clive. I'm not quite sure what happened but I'm (fairly!) confident in saying I'm back in business :D couldn't have done it without this forum!

[Clive S]

I've used the router for an hour with no issue, thank you very much for all the replies, especially you, Clive. I'm not quite sure what happened but I'm (fairly!) confident in saying I'm back in business :D couldn't have done it without this forum!

Mark Just for the sake of clarity and for others can you say what was the problem if you know.

Glad you got it going.

[mark84]

Hi,
Sorry for my wall of text, I misunderstood the original instructions about joining For and Dcm, I didn't think you meant with mach 3 connected.
I can confirm that connecting these two and starting the toolpath does bring the spindle to life, disconnecting the two while the spindle is running stops it, and simply pressing the spindle off via mach3 slows it(but doesn't stop it fully) to about 70rpm.

I know this is a very big bump, but I've just put it to the back of my mind for the best part of 3 years (where does the time go!)
So I'm still to this day happily using the router(an hour or so a month) with FOR and DCM connected. Everything works fine *touch routed wood *, so I never altered the vfd settings, and just stuck with the change to the wiring.. but can I ask if this solution has any downsides?! Should have probably asked this in 2017.