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Ross77
31-10-2017, 10:37 PM
Im looking for the best option for an ATC from my CNC lathe, its basically a Myford ml10 with just the tee slot table.

Struggling to find any for sale and seen a few plans with two different designs for the holding mech. Some use a ratchet and pawl rotating in one direction and others have a toothed ring and have to push the plate forward to rotate to the next position.

Which option is best?

Lastly any plans for a suitable one? Cheers

Chaz
01-11-2017, 10:27 AM
There are some on GrabCAD worth looking at.

Effectively you have 4 options.

Manual stuff like Multigrip / Dickson holders.
Gang Tooling, might be worth a look pending what type of stuff you turn.
Turret - rachet / pawl
Turret - pnuematic (or similar) locator function

There is a guy on ebay making very decent looking turrets - sells them for around 500 ish. The only reason I havent bought is that they do max 10mm tools and Id like larger for my lathe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diy-cnc-lathe-turret-see-new-photos-https-youtu-be-cCDulVashA/302505482016?hash=item466ebb5720:g:6IwAAOSwK~RZ-JvI

Not seen him list them like this (in kit form) before.

Spoken to him extensively on whatsup, does this for day job too, seems to know his stuff, worth a look. He also has a gang tool setup for sale but might be too big for a Myford.

magicniner
01-11-2017, 01:59 PM
There is a guy on ebay making very decent looking turrets - sells them for around 500 ish. The only reason I havent bought is that they do max 10mm tools and Id like larger for my lathe.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diy-cnc-lathe-turret-see-new-photos-https-youtu-be-cCDulVashA/302505482016?hash=item466ebb5720:g:6IwAAOSwK~RZ-JvI

Not seen him list them like this (in kit form) before.

Spoken to him extensively on whatsup, does this for day job too, seems to know his stuff, worth a look. He also has a gang tool setup for sale but might be too big for a Myford.


The turning tool holders look easy to make in a larger size?

Chaz
01-11-2017, 06:14 PM
The turning tool holders look easy to make in a larger size?

Perhaps. Ive not seen the kit broken down like this before. It might be where the 'centreline' is effectively which is more challenging.

magicniner
01-11-2017, 06:56 PM
Perhaps. Ive not seen the kit broken down like this before. It might be where the 'centreline' is effectively which is more challenging.

Given that they mount in the same holes as drilling and boring tool mounting holes then the centre line is the mounting hole centre line, no challenge! ;-)

Chaz
01-11-2017, 07:01 PM
Given that they mount in the same holes as drilling and boring tool mounting holes then the centre line is the mounting hole centre line, no challenge! ;-)

True. Spoken to him, he will likely be able to mod these to go to 12mm. I can then probably make my own later if I want to go to 16 or 20mm tooling.

magicniner
01-11-2017, 07:04 PM
Bonus! :D

Ross77
01-11-2017, 09:48 PM
I did see that one but put off by the small tool capacity. May have to message him if it can hold 12mm

I'm currently using 16mm tooling with a large QCTP and getting a nice Finnish so don't want to go down to much in case the finish quality is reduced.

would also need to buy all new tooling

Chaz
01-11-2017, 09:58 PM
He can mod to 12mm. Anything larger needs new holders done.

Ross77
01-11-2017, 10:34 PM
Just messaged him so find out soon enough.

looking at the pictures again it does only have 1 pawl on the ratchet so that might limit the force it can take

magicniner
02-11-2017, 10:14 AM
would also need to buy all new tooling

I use tooling from 6mm through to 25mm+ shank on my Myford Super 7, by milling a relief pocket on the holder side of the shank which just accommodates the bottom lip of the Myford size QCTP holders the ability to use the tool in a larger holder isn't compromised, rigidity isn't reduced to any significant degree and centre height isn't an issue :D

Chaz
02-11-2017, 10:20 AM
Is there a view on what size tool is required? For my Harrison M300, this is a semi beefy home lathe. 12mm almost looks too small. I spoke to Kenny last night (dude selling the stuff) and he says on his Haas CNC lathe, he tried bigger tools (20mm etc) and found that they took up too much space and settled with 16mm. Suppose feeds and speeds are important here too. Most of my turning is alu or softer steels.

m_c
02-11-2017, 06:02 PM
Is there enough height on a ML10 for that style tool changer?

Ross77
03-11-2017, 12:27 AM
Is there enough height on a ML10 for that style tool changer?

Umm No. just checked tonight and it is only 50mm from the table to the center of the spindle.

Looks like it will have to be custom made if I go down that route. maybe try gang tooling first.

m_c
03-11-2017, 05:18 PM
I used a mix of quick change holders, and a gang tooling block when I had my Conect lathe.

A couple photos can be found in this album over on flickr - https://www.flickr.com/photos/mc_mtb/albums/72157625154378941

IIRC they were ER25 holders.

Chaz
06-08-2018, 02:47 PM
Ive actually bought one of these so if anyone needs info, let me know.

Ross77
09-08-2018, 08:36 PM
How are getting on with the ATC? is the turned finish similar to a QCTP

Im looking at building one but cant decide on this type with the ratchet and pawl or the pneumatic ones with the toothed register. Seems to be pros and cons to both

Chaz
09-08-2018, 08:41 PM
How are getting on with the ATC? is the turned finish similar to a QCTP

Im looking at building one but cant decide on this type with the ratchet and pawl or the pneumatic ones with the toothed register. Seems to be pros and cons to both

I think its decent. I struggled with parting, he uses an alu 'pawl' which ive since machined out of steel, havent tested it yet. For a smaller machine, its ok but it struggles a bit with the heavier stuff.

Ross77
09-08-2018, 08:57 PM
Thats for the heads up. what size is the main block?

My friend has the little denford one and said it suffers from similar issues. We were looking to make one with the pnuematic actuator but seem like a lot of work to me.

I just seen this one http://lukesprojects.weebly.com/automatic-lathe-tool-changer.html it uses two adjustable pawls and looks quite substantial

Do you know if the pneumatic ones are the best option? either way it will be an investment so we want to make the best possible version

Chaz
09-08-2018, 09:01 PM
Thats for the heads up. what size is the main block?

My friend has the little denford one and said it suffers from similar issues. We were looking to make one with the pnuematic actuator but seem like a lot of work to me.

I just seen this one http://lukesprojects.weebly.com/automatic-lathe-tool-changer.html it uses two adjustable pawls and looks quite substantial

Do you know if the pneumatic ones are the best option? either way it will be an investment so we want to make the best possible version

Sorry, main block? The mounting block? Probably around 100 x 100 mm but can check over teh weekend.

m_c
09-08-2018, 10:46 PM
Pneumatic turrets using a hirth or curvic coupling are far sturdier, but as you're aware, they are far more complex (and good hirth/curvic couplings are not cheap!).
They have the benefit that the tool disc gets clamped firmly in place with lots of mating surfaces, whereas on a ratchet and pawl setup, not only do you have flex due to the shaft needing to be able to rotate, you're relying on a single point of contact to resist cutting forces.

And as already mentioned, parting is where you're most likely to notice any play/flex on a lathe.

Altaros
06-09-2019, 02:56 PM
Hello,
our company just released cheap but precise automatic turret tool head for 8 tools. May be great for hobby users!


https://youtu.be/EBXyO_Fw4GU

More informations here: https://www.altaros.cz/en/content/53-automatic-turret-head

Chaz
06-09-2019, 05:16 PM
Hello,
our company just released cheap but precise automatic turret tool head for 8 tools. May be great for hobby users!


https://youtu.be/EBXyO_Fw4GU

More informations here: https://www.altaros.cz/en/content/53-automatic-turret-head

Had a quick look on my phone earlier, looks decent and well documented.

Ross77
09-09-2019, 12:25 AM
Cheers, that looks really nice but I only have 50mm table to CL so that wouldn't fit.

We are also 90% finished on the one we are building. All steel and only needs a nema 17 stepper to turn it.

26421
26420

Ross77
09-09-2019, 12:26 AM
Cheers, that looks really nice but I only have 50mm table to CL so that wouldn't fit.

We are also 90% finished on the one we are building. All steel and only needs a nema 17 stepper to turn it.

26421
26420

Ross77
12-09-2019, 10:21 PM
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Yo6VCW2a8KGGR9Tm7

This is the first test of the ATC to check movement and speed. Index's perfectly and can move in both directions to find the closest tool

Clive S
12-09-2019, 10:36 PM
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNkuJyw8w6rCvPLg71c27NY9aM_W9Qqsf0HJtS1/photo/AF1QipOM5cYrCPRSCEaFNHtOH-ZOmLiNh3SS40o_NMgJ

This is the first test of the ATC to check movement and speed. Index's perfectly and can move in both directions to find the closest tool

Ross This link shows error 404 but the one you sent me was fine.

pistolknight
31-03-2020, 10:09 PM
Hi Ross, your toolchanger looks really sturdy. Did you make this to an existing design or is it all new? I would love to make one for my Denford Easiturn as I'm getting fed up changing tools every few minutes!

Best Regards

David

Ross77
31-03-2020, 11:21 PM
Hi David, Thanks, it is rock solid and really happy with it.

Yes it was all designed and built from scratch. It was joint project between me and friend and was a lot of work to get it finished. he had the denford one with the ratchet and pawl design but it wasn't ridged enough so we set about a more industrial option using the Hurth coupling. Most of the DIY ones we looked at had the problem of making the shaft really tight when the Bellville's were compressed to open it and needed a massive stepper to then rotate the tool plate.

Ours works differently and when the Bellville's are compressed the shaft is free to turn by hand and allowed a small nema 17 stepper to spin the plate.

There was talk of doing a small production run of them so I'm not sure if I could post up the plans yet.

pistolknight
01-04-2020, 12:15 AM
No worries - I've actually been looking at the same idea for some time but shelved the idea as I couldn't be bothered making the hirth couplings as they can be an arse ache.
My intention was to just use a pneumatic clamp cylinder with a single belleville to aid in the release. Not overly complicated really.
Let me know if you decide to make more as I'd certainly be interested

David

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kfm
20-07-2020, 01:25 PM
Hi Ross

have you progressed the idea of a production run of the tool changer? Have just started to renovate an 1980's ORAC, which came without an ATC and am weighing up different options at the moment.

Ross77
20-07-2020, 11:48 PM
Hi Ross

have you progressed the idea of a production run of the tool changer? Have just started to renovate an 1980's ORAC, which came without an ATC and am weighing up different options at the moment.

No not at the moment, but if there is interest then it might spur us on. Congrats on the Orac, nice lathes.

pistolknight
07-08-2020, 06:09 PM
Interested depending on price of course!

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Ross77
10-08-2020, 01:22 AM
Interested depending on price of course!

So out of interest what would be considered a good price? the Denford ones are around 500 but given material costs and the labour it would be hard to meet that price. Also it is so much more ridged, it really is in a different league. (even if I do say so my self :o) )

Doddy
10-08-2020, 08:18 AM
Also interested in this - I've read quickly back over the thread and I *think* (I could be wrong) that you are designing something around the 50mm centre height? (ie. Myford compatible?). Price is king of course - as a hobbyist that sometimes wonders if he needs a lathe, much above 500 starts getting a bit sweaty... I appreciate the material, effort and NRE on these things but have to balance desire vs need.

pistolknight
28-08-2020, 12:13 AM
I'd happily pay 600, any more and it would be worth making one for myself!

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