Tb6600?

[jtar40]

Hello!
I've had some discussion on what kind of a driver to get and I've been recommended several. It was the debate between the dq542ma, and digital drivers such as the am882 and EM806.
I must say, I've become a lot more educated on the analog and digital driver's. But I'm a highschool student and I can't spend much on a hobby (not yet at least). I hate to sound cheap but is there anything less expensive, and relatively good (meaning it works) for hobby purposes?
I've been looking at tb6600 drivers on eBay and they can get pretty cheap. I've even seen quite consistent good reviews on some.
I'd love to advance to try out the previously mentioned drivers in the future, but they are a bit expensive for me currently. I'm always open to suggestions though too.

( I'm using a 3 axis cnc router with 3amp nema 23's and I was going to buy a uc300eth with some breakout boards) let me know if there's any other info necessary and relevant.

Thanks so much!!!

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[Doddy]

So, it's a hobby. Why not buy a single driver and have a play on one axis on the machine - get to understand the driver and realise if it's suited to your needs. The benefit of the TB6600 (and similar) can only be price - so other replies will extoll the virtues of other drives, but you've listed cost as a key discriminator here. I have TB6600s, and I've modified them to make them work reliably. They do work, for me, for a hobby machine. I will replace them on my next machine as I update the PSU, but that's a different story.

Beware of misrepresentation - I've bought drivers claiming to be TB6600s (identified as 42V, 4A drivers) which were actually based on a Toshiba TB67S109AFTG chip - similar, but lower spec to the TB6600 - I had these working briefly but never reliably (lost steps, etc) - but I never investigated why.

You already have a machine?, so what are your replacing with the TB6600?

[jtar40]

So, it's a hobby. Why not buy a single driver and have a play on one axis on the machine - get to understand the driver and realise if it's suited to your needs. The benefit of the TB6600 (and similar) can only be price - so other replies will extoll the virtues of other drives, but you've listed cost as a key discriminator here. I have TB6600s, and I've modified them to make them work reliably. They do work, for me, for a hobby machine. I will replace them on my next machine as I update the PSU, but that's a different story.

Beware of misrepresentation - I've bought drivers claiming to be TB6600s (identified as 42V, 4A drivers) which were actually based on a Toshiba TB67S109AFTG chip - similar, but lower spec to the TB6600 - I had these working briefly but never reliably (lost steps, etc) - but I never investigated why.

You already have a machine?, so what are your replacing with the TB6600? Yeah I already have a machine, my dad built it a while ago and it was working off a tb6560 but that got fried and our desktop computer doesn't work anymore for it's parallel port so now I'm going to be shifting to a uc300eth.

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[m_c]

The TB6600 chip is far superior to the older TB6560 chip, and addressed a lot of the problems that caused the 6560's to regularly die.

It is by no means a high performance stepper driver, but is more than adequate provided you're not chasing the ultimate performance.

[jtar40]

Huh, not a bad idea at all thanks!
May be a dumb question but, what really makes a cnc controller extra good/ " a good quality controller"? I know that many controllers have better microstep settings, ie) 1, 1/2, 1/8, 1/16 etc. But what else makes a controller superior to a simple cheap tb6560 or tb6600?


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[Ger21]

It's a drive, not a controller.

What makes a drive good?
Smoothness.
Anti Resonance.
Motor heating.
Stall detection.
Software configurable.

[routercnc]

Other features of better drives are the ability to run at higher voltage. The 542 is about 50V, tb6600 is 42V I believe, whereas the other drives you mention in post 1 are rated at 80V. This means more stepper torque and ability to run at a higher speed. So a much faster machine.

Also, and sort of related is the tendency to miss steps on the cheaper drivers because you are trying to get the most out of them. By way of example I had an all-in-one board (system3?) which was rated at 24V to 30V. I was advised by the supplier that it could be ran it 32V to squeeze more performance out. I had lots of missed steps and it took me a while (as I was just starting out) to realise why and dropping to less than 30V sorted it out. Of course I was then stuck with the performance it could offer.

I ran with this board for a few years and it did actually work and I could make parts. Would I buy another - not a chance. So you pays your money and takes your choice.

[m_c]

One thing I didn't mention in my previous post, was get individual drives. That way should one die, you only need to replace the one. Plus it means if you do decide to upgrade in future, you could do it one driver at a time as funds allow.


As Gerry says, there are a few things that make drivers better. Some of them more so than others.
The TBxxxx chips output is directly proportional to the settings and input pulses. Up to it's maximum speed, it's still outputting in microsteps, which although makes slow speed movement smoother, it reduces performance as speed increases due to the slower nature of the microstepping output.

Geckos/M542 type drivers introduced microstep morphing. What that means, is as speed increases, the output gradually changes from microstepping to full steps. This allows for smooth low speed operation, but high speed performance is improved. I know Geckos have a trim pot for adjusting the speed at which the morphing occurs, but I'm not sure if others do.

Then digital drives brought in things like anti-resonance and stall detection. Anti-resonance is essentially morphing but done dynamically by monitoring the current/voltage being applied to the motor. Stall detection is just an extension of that monitoring system.

[jtar40]

For anyone who has, had or knows anything about it, is there any specific break out board I should be getting with this uc300eth? I don't know much about them, I think they're generally the same but I'm not sure. How does it work with the software, interface and Bob? Are you able to set up individual pins on uccnc? Or do you need a specific break out board that is set up for the uccnc software outputs?

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[driftspin]

For anyone who has, had or knows anything about it, is there any specific break out board I should be getting with this uc300eth? I don't know much about them, I think they're generally the same but I'm not sure. How does it work with the software, interface and Bob? Are you able to set up individual pins on uccnc? Or do you need a specific break out board that is set up for the uccnc software outputs?

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Hi Jtar40,

the uc300eth is mach compatible and uccnc software key is available for a lot less.
Also checkout the bob UB1 from cncroom.com

Grtz Bert.



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[Doddy]

For anyone who has, had or knows anything about it, is there any specific break out board I should be getting with this uc300eth? I don't know much about them, I think they're generally the same but I'm not sure. How does it work with the software, interface and Bob? Are you able to set up individual pins on uccnc? Or do you need a specific break out board that is set up for the uccnc software outputs?

The UC300eth has 5 discrete ports and one analogue port.

Two of the discrete ports (2&3) mimic the standard LPT/parallel port, and because of this you can easily use a standard parallel Break Out Board to interface to either of these. The signalling is pretty standard - 5V levels (outputs are driven by 74HC13s, interfacing the onboard 3.3V logic of the UC300eth with the offboard signals at 5V; inputs are coupled via a resistive divider networks to drop the 5V input to the onboard 3.3V), but the nature of this is such that a BoB of some description is highly recommended to avoid any problems with spikes/noise etc driving or damaging the UC300eth (and the UC400, for that matter). The UC300eth is supplied complete with a cable to allow one of the ports 2 or 3 to be directly wired to a standard parallel/LPT BoB, and you can buy more cables easily (26W-IDC to 25W D-Type).

Ports 1, 4, 5 are different - they each present a significant number of inputs (13) and a small number of outputs (4) with the same signalling as ports 2&3 (74HC13 driven at 5V, resistive divider on inputs). A standard BoB cannot be used on these ports. This is where the UB1 provides a significant benefit over standard BoBs - providing a configurable (24V/5V) opto-isolated interface to the inputs, and a buffered driver for the outputs. The UB1 also provides an interface for the analogue port - providing two separate isolated analogue outputs to drive e.g. a spindle speed interface.

The UB1 also provides the necessary 5VDC supply to the UC300eth.

The UB1 is, without doubt, a decent interface between the UC300eth and a machine, but it's worth checking that you need the additional support required for the non-standard LPT ports, as it clearly comes at a price.

At this time, my own build can use the ports 2&3 with standard (cheap) parallel/LPT BoBs, and I'll reserve the use of the additional capabilities for a later use (if at all).

I am tempted to throw together a rugged I/O - or BoB board specifically for these ports and publish the board design through Seeed/DirtyPCB to allow anyone to build their own.

Regarding the software etc, the UCCNC - it is configured that it understands the respective inputs and outputs on each port, and you can program these with the required functionality (i.e. designating an input as E-Stop, or an output as a motor interface, or otherwise a standard discrete output). You cannot, however, change the type of interface (e.g. change an input to an output) - that is hardwired on the UC300eth.

[A_Camera]

For anyone who has, had or knows anything about it, is there any specific break out board I should be getting with this uc300eth? I don't know much about them, I think they're generally the same but I'm not sure. How does it work with the software, interface and Bob? Are you able to set up individual pins on uccnc? Or do you need a specific break out board that is set up for the uccnc software outputs?


You can use any BOB with the UC300ETH. Personally I have two of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Geekcreit-5-Axis-CNC-Breakout-Interface-Board-For-Stepper-Driver-Mach3-With-USB-/323209614804?hash=item4b40cb55d4

There is no need to buy a 180$ BOB unless you know you'll need it, when you can get it working just as well with a $5 BOB. I know that just like in the case of digital vs. the 542 drivers some people will disagree, but so be it. As a student, you will be ruined if you follow some peoples advice, so be careful when asking on a forum.

Of course, if you plan on building and industrial machine then buy only the best, but if you have a hobby and/or if you have some budget restrictions then the cheaper alternatives are not necessarily worse than the $180 UB1.

[A_Camera]

Hello!
I've had some discussion on what kind of a driver to get and I've been recommended several. It was the debate between the dq542ma, and digital drivers such as the am882 and EM806.
I must say, I've become a lot more educated on the analog and digital driver's. But I'm a highschool student and I can't spend much on a hobby (not yet at least). I hate to sound cheap but is there anything less expensive, and relatively good (meaning it works) for hobby purposes?
I've been looking at tb6600 drivers on eBay and they can get pretty cheap. I've even seen quite consistent good reviews on some.
I'd love to advance to try out the previously mentioned drivers in the future, but they are a bit expensive for me currently. I'm always open to suggestions though too.

( I'm using a 3 axis cnc router with 3amp nema 23's and I was going to buy a uc300eth with some breakout boards) let me know if there's any other info necessary and relevant.



Based on my TB6560 experience I will in the future avoid and drivers based on an TB chip. It may be so that you will not notice any issues, but in my opinion you'd be much better off with the DQ542MA drivers than any TB chip based one. Even if the 6600 is much better than the 6560, I think it is still limited in capabilities compared to the DQ542MA, but sine I have no experience with the TB6600, I can't really say anything else than what is readable from the specs. Regardless of which one you chose, make sure you buy individual drivers for each stepper, and not one board with 3 or 4 TB6600 chips on it.

[Clive S]

You can use any BOB with the UC300ETH. Personally I have two of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Geekcreit-5...item4b40cb55d4


Even cheaper:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-with-optical-coupler-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-MACH3/191764101708?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[A_Camera]

Even cheaper:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-axis-CNC-Breakout-Board-with-optical-coupler-for-Stepper-Motor-Driver-MACH3/191764101708?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Yes, definitely. I paid $5 for mine. Works perfectly since several years.

[driftspin]

Yes, definitely. I paid $5 for mine. Works perfectly since several years.Hi A_Camera.

You are making me doubt if i need an usd180+tax bob like the UB1.

I was already thinking ... maybe do a bob like mentioned above and upgrade later.

It wil pay for the better part of the of the spindle and vfd.

Can you do a pro's and cons on the ub1 vs 2 of those bobs from your point of view?.. i need 4 stepper driver outputs.

The 1 real con i can find is 25khz vz 400khz. the other stuff can be resolved i think..

So.. less speed or less resolution.



Grtz Bert.

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[A_Camera]

Hi Bert,

I am sorry but I can't write any pro's and cons between the UB1 and the $5 BOB because I don't know the UB1, so I could only compare the specs, which you can do as well. Yes, there are some advantages, but to me they are not relevant and not worth $170 extra. But... CNC Drive have just released a new BOB (http://www.shop.cncdrive.com/index.php?productID=914) and that is a more reasonable alternative. If I'd build my machine today I'd probably buy that one. It is a dual port BOB, and it does not seem to have analogue output, so if you plan to control the VFD with 0-10V then you probably need an external PWM card as well. Regardless of which, I think one or two $5 BOB is the way to go for anyone on budget restrictions.

BTW, there is no 25kHz limit, it works just as well with 200kHz also, which is the limit of most of the drivers anyway. 400kHz is the upper limit of the motion controller, but again, with 200kHz you can go very far... The BOB has 74HC14 buffers on the outputs which control the motion through the drivers, so the limit is not the BOB but your drivers. The DQ542MA has a 200kHz upper limit because of the opto couplers on the inputs. I have actually tested them with 400kHz and while they worked well, there is no need for that speed in my machine, so I keep the 200kHz settings.

Also, speed has nothing to do with resolution. The resolution is the same at high speed as it is with low speed.

[Nr1madman]

Wow!
That new ucbb looks sweet.. Thanks for the tip :)

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[A_Camera]

Wow!
That new ucbb looks sweet.. Thanks for the tip :)


You're welcome. Yes, it's nice and is definitely a more reasonable alternative to "normal" users who don't need zillions of inputs/outputs, and control their VFD via Modbus.

[jtar40]

I've still been searching around for drives and Im just sort of curious about the dm542t. Anyone know much about this drive? Is it worth it to invest a bit more money into this drive opposed to buying tb6600's? I know that contradicts a lot of my previous problem (cheapness) but it seems quite a bit more reliable and it's price isn't bad on Amazon.



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[m_c]

The DM542T is an older Leadshine drive (IIRC it's the one that Leadshine essentially copied from Geckodrive), and is a good mid-budget drive. They'll certainly be a major improvement over TB6600 drives.

It's worth mention that I'm not sure how many sold are actually genuine Leadshine now, but even the copies are generally still reliable and good performance.

[jtar40]

I think I'm probably going to go with the dm542t then instead of the tb6600. It's not a lot money, and it sounds pretty darn good for what I'm looking for. But just out of curiosity, are there any other drivers that maybe I should research? I looked at the dq542ma, em806, am882, but some of those got a bit expensive for me (when converting the dollar value). Are there any other "mid-budget" drives that anyone recommends?(Mid budget probably being like 30-50$ per driver)

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[A_Camera]

I've still been searching around for drives and Im just sort of curious about the dm542t. Anyone know much about this drive? Is it worth it to invest a bit more money into this drive opposed to buying tb6600's? I know that contradicts a lot of my previous problem (cheapness) but it seems quite a bit more reliable and it's price isn't bad on Amazon.



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Yes, it is MUCH better than the TB chip based drivers. I use a fake Leadshine, the DQ542MA, and been using those for over two years. They work nice, cool and quiet. Also my speed improved a lot after I started using those on the exact same CNC, only replaced the TB drivers with them. So, if you think those are a bit expensive you can always buy the cheaper DQ542MA, though the DM542T should be even better than that and I would not hesitate buying those today.

[jtar40]

I got another question, I never really thought about it but should I be buying 3 power supplies instead of using just one? The reason I ask is that I just notice in a lot of the pictures on here, the prepared kits people buy online typically come with 3 power supplies, one for each axis. I'm just not sure if there's a greater purpose having the 3 instead of just using one if it still meets the required amperage and voltage ratings for the motor and driver.

The power supply I have is 20 amps, and 24-26 vdc, I'm buying the dm542t motor driver which requires 20-50 vdc. Also I have 3 nema 23's each 3amps. I know I can be using a higher rated power supply (closer to 50 vdc) for optimal torque but if it's not a problem to use only the one, I think I'd stick to my 24-26 vdc power supply.

In short;... is it a problem to run all three axis' on a single power supply if the power supply meets the requirements of the motor driver and motor? And is there a reason kits sell 3 power supplies instead of just the one?

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[Ger21]

No, there's no problem using just one power supply. A single power supply is preferable, imo.


I know I can be using a higher rated power supply (closer to 50 vdc) for optimal torque

Higher voltage gives you more speed, not more torque.
your machine will be twice as fast with 50V as it is with 24V.

You usually see kits with multiple power supplies when the current requirements are higher, as large high current power supplies can be expensive.

[Neale]

If you are using the common switch-mode power supplies (these are generally contained in a single box, lighter weight, and cheaper) then it is very important not to exceed the rated current. If you do, you trip the over-current protection mechanisms, the PSU shuts down temporarily, and things can go wrong. I don't think I've seen kits with multiple PSUs but it's probably to make sure that there is enough current capability. The stepper drivers actually draw current as a series of relatively short pulses; if your three drivers all demand a pulse at the same time then the sun of these might be too much for the PSU. No reason not to use a single supply as long as it can handle the peak current.

A better technical solution is to use a so-called linear power supply. Heavier and a bit more expensive but easy to build yourself from available components (plenty of examples on this forum). The advantage is that they can be rated for the average current draw and can deal with short pulse loads without a problem.

I would disagree with Gerry about voltage and torque. Stepper motors are driven by short pulses. When a pulse begins the current in the motor winding starts to rise, ramping up to its maximum. The higher the supply voltage, the faster the current rises and as it's current that translates into torque, the quicker the torque is developed during the pulse. The overall effect is higher average torque, which helps acceleration. Highest voltage that the driver can stand will give the best overall performance.

[picclock]

Have you looked into stand alone controller like the DDCSV. Current price is similar to uc300eth, but it includes the computer part. So you upload the gcode to a usb stick, plug it in and it runs. Also works with a pendant.
Might save a lot of interface pain :-)
Best Regards
picclock

[jtar40]

I got a question about the power supply again... So it's been common feedback that amps don't matter since the circuit will only draw as much as it needs ( in the case of powering a uc300eth-5lpt it's a minimum of 0.5 amps as someone stated above) volts of course must be lower than the max voltage allowed(less than 5 volts in my case), but is there anything I should be watching for in terms of "watts?" I'm not too familiar with watts although I know it's a common measurement, but would watts be relevant??
Thanks in advance!

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[Doddy]

Ivolts of course must be lower than the max voltage allowed(less than 5 volts in my case)

Voltage for the UC300ETH should be 5V - don't go lower.

Current draw is whatever the board draws - obviously specified at 500mA, so spec for at least that - it doesn't matter much if the PSU is substantially higher than this provided that it's regulated.

Power is a function of voltage and current. P=V*I, where I is the drawn current. So, the power supply should be rated at 5V * 0.5A (=500mA) = 2.5W - as a minimum.