bt35 collet chucks for denford triac

[battwell]

if anyone has any spare bt35 collet chucks for denford triac id be interested in some
unless anyone knows where i can purchase new?
nothing showed on ebay when i searched

[m_c]

I've not seen on ebay for a few months now, as I've been scooping them up when they've been available.

I did find an indian manufacturer who listed them in ER form, but that's as far as I got.
Chinese suppliers wanted a copy of the relevant BT35 standard, as they only seem to do 30/40 tapers.

Regardless, you were looking at a minimum order quantities of 50 or 100 to get a batch made.

[Doddy]

I don't think this will be very useful... but here goes.

Look to the Americans (ebay.com) - they have a few holders.

I have a single BT35 DA-200 collet holder. This is sat on my desk in front of me.

I *did* have a single BT35 - MT2 adaptor (to use a MT2-ER25 collet holder), but I lost too much height using this, so I bought a BT35-ER32 collet holder. These last two were last seen in the shed... and I can't remember if I've thrown them away.

If you're interested in the first, it's yours; if you're interested in the others, give me time to tidy the shed and if I come across them, they're yours - I've 50% confidence in finding them.

None have pull studs.

pm me if interested.

[andy_con]

I've not seen any proper bt35 tooling (da180 da200) on ebay for years.

Last time I saw some I managed to get 9x da200 holders for £15 each

[battwell]

i just went through the stuff supplied with the mill- i have 9 assorted tool holders. ( 2 with er collets)
5 were brand new in wax :-)
strange as the pull studs on them were too long- and wasnt claming up tight!
luckily i had correct length pull studs in stock. and now it works well on atc.
still could do with more tooling- i hate having to re set tools!
here is a quick video i took testing the atc code. couldnt work out whether it should retract before rotating or stay in by spindle (never run it on fanuc before converting)
https://youtu.be/C_4gqGdgKas

[m_c]

I think I've now got about 15 assorted holders, as my machine came with a good few.

I would prefer a good batch of ER collet holders though, which is something I may try and get quotes on again.

[battwell]

your using kmotion on yours arent you?
how did you do spindle alignment for atc? in kmotion or in the servo?
that was one thing that drove me nuts trying to work it all out.

[m_c]

Yes, I'm using KMotion.

I never bothered with alignment, as my machine is a later one without the locating dogs.
I do have the spindle servo index pulse connected to the KFlop, so if I did want to implement alignment, it would only involve a couple extra lines of code to rotate the spindle to the required position.

[andy_con]

i went to southern engineering 2017 and spoke to some of the stalls selling tool holders, two did say they still had the moulds for bt35, but the demand just wasnt there

[battwell]

was just wondering - anyone think it would be possible to machine a conversion sleeve to go in the spindle- bt35 to iso30?
iso 30 collet chucks are rediculously cheap now . i have around 150 for my routers!
if i can find the exact dimensions i might get one of the chinese engineering companies that keep saying how good they are to knock up 10. thoughts?

[m_c]

It would probably be easier, and far more reliable, to just buy a new spindle from Denford.

IIRC they're still using the same spindle in their new machines, so it would just be a case of swapping the main spindle, along with any other bits that differ. Then of course you have the problem of converting the ATC.
I'm sure a post on the denford forum would give a definitive answer.

[andy_con]

It would probably be easier, and far more reliable, to just buy a new spindle from Denford.

IIRC they're still using the same spindle in their new machines, so it would just be a case of swapping the main spindle, along with any other bits that differ. Then of course you have the problem of converting the ATC.
I'm sure a post on the denford forum would give a definitive answer.

I have a full cad design to turn a standard 6 station ATC disk into an 8 or 10 station disk

[m_c]

I have a full cad design to turn a standard 6 station ATC disk into an 8 or 10 station disk

Isn't the 8 tool disc CAD available on the denford forum?
It's certainly not as big a problem as the spindle.

[andy_con]

Isn't the 8 tool disc CAD available on the denford forum?
It's certainly not as big a problem as the spindle.

No idea, but this is my own design. So it uses a stepper motor to speed up tool changes

[battwell]

to be fair- the old geneva wheel is a bit slow! i dont think it was designed as a production machine. i had a hell of a job getting the coding right to get it to stop exactly where i wanted it- especially if reversing direction. - but im one that wont let challenges beat me.
was very tempted to change it to servo driven. ( i dont use steppers for anything any more ) . - maybe in the future but seems i have the coding accurate enough . i havnt had a position loss in last month of testing.
re tooling - i think ive found some that -while expensive is going to be worth buying. everything has collets ive never heard of. - but researching more before i part with more money. the machine doesnt stand me much money so far- so il probably just buy them.
i only have one product i want to mass produce (haha for me- thats about 10 a week)

[m_c]

I think a servo would be overkill for a toolchanger!
Small stepper and driver would be far cheaper, and just as effective, as you don't need high acceleration or speed, unless you want to spend your life putting the tools back in the disc...

The mishmash of collets I seem to be gathering is what will probably push me to either buying a batch of BT35 ER toolholders, or swapping the spindle. When I need to swap tools, I seem to spend longer hunting down collets, or having to swap tools around to toolholder/collet combinations that will work for what I'm trying to do.
I seem to be managing fine just now, but I've not been using my Triac that much. I do have some new products on the sketchpad though, which are going to require a re-think of tooling, as I don't want to lose time having to swap tools between holders.

[m_c]

BT35 to 30 conversion thread created over on the Denford forum - http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=5578

Looks like only three parts are different, but I'd probably renew everything internal to the spindle. It will also likely need new taper bearings, as I doubt they'll come off the old spindle without damaging them.

[battwell]

cool- il take a look.
re servos- not a problem here. i service and repair mitsubishi servos. hundreds in stock from 50 watt to 5kw sizes
also stocking allen bradley drives etc for those that need something with every function known to man! ( used on the triac to run the original fanuc red cap motors.)

[battwell]

seen these? look good for a new build
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ATC-spindle-BT30-milling-spindle-cnc-router-spindle-motor-with-synchronous-belt-for-BT30-spring-drawbar/32397698428.html?shortkey=rAzemiEf&addresstype=600

[m_c]

seen these? look good for a new build
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ATC-spindle-BT30-milling-spindle-cnc-router-spindle-motor-with-synchronous-belt-for-BT30-spring-drawbar/32397698428.html?shortkey=rAzemiEf&addresstype=600

Yeah.
I think you could machine a Triac head to accept one, but mounting the motor could be a challenge, and you'd add a fair bit of weight, which I don't think would do the dovetails much good long term.
If I was scratch building a machine, one of those, or something very similar would be top of the list.

[battwell]

I managed to buy 10 nice nikken collet chucks
Take the expensive km22 collets. But they are very nice!
£35 each with collet.

[m_c]

I managed to buy 10 nice nikken collet chucks
Take the expensive km22 collets. But they are very nice!
£35 each with collet.
Care to share your source?

I've got various searches setup, but I've not seen any BT35 for sale for a couple months now.

[battwell]

https://www.1st-tooling.co.uk/index.asp?function=search

He gave me 25% discount on purchase of 10.

[m_c]

Thanks for that.
I remember coming across that before, but they didn't have anything of interest in stock at the time.

[battwell]

id still love to find some more er collet chucks. i only have 1 er20. or im going to have to buy more of the expensive km22 collets :-(
i only want them for the small diameter tools.
i added an er20 extension to one of the new chucks yesterday as i needed to use a 2mm tool. makes the tool holder very long! just got away with it.

[m_c]

I'd love a batch of ER holders, but my last attempt at getting a quote from China was met with wanting the official dimensions for the BT35 part.

Once I've got some money spare, I might try approaching some of the more hobby orientated tooling suppliers, to see if they'd be willing to source them via their usual suppliers.

[andy_con]

Just got 3x bt35 da180 holders on ebay for £12 each ��

[battwell]

Just got 3x bt35 da180 holders on ebay for £12 each ��
jammy b :-)

[andy_con]

jammy b :-)

My best was 9x da200 for £10 each

[m_c]

There's been quite a few BT35 holders on ebay this week. I was tempted, but I've just ordered a batch of ER25 holders, as I finally cracked a couple weeks ago when I would of had to start juggling holders/collets to add another cutter.

[battwell]

just received some gorgeous bt35 chucks with er20 collet from aliexpress. very well made.
shame pull stud is too long for my triac... will try to find correct ones again

[m_c]

There are different standards for pull studs.
I had to get a batch custom made, as I couldn't find anything suitable.