Quick addition of 2.2kw spindle with VFD - Is this possible?

[ngwagwa]

Hi.

My Microrouter has a Cable Porter router fitted. I have worked out this is controlled via a Sprint 400 board with the RPM control coming via a Spindle 5 Digital tp Analog converter outputting 0-10v ( I haven't found what actually turns the motor on yet).

If I fit a 2.2kw spindle and a VFD can I just connect the existing output from the Spindle 5 board and the on/off wires (when I find them) to the VFD? I want to keep things as simple as possible so I can switch between the 2 spindles as needs arise.

Thanks for any help.

Carl

[Doddy]

Just to note, the Sprint 400 manual claims that all terminals, including pots (for speed control) float at mains voltages. So, in theory - to answer your question - yes, but I would suggest that the output from the Spindle 5 board is used to drive one, and only one of the speed controllers. Best that you have a connector system that requires you to disconnect from one to feed the other to avoid possible inadvertent contact.

[ngwagwa]

Thanks Doddy, I was already considering fitting of a connector system.

Looking at how the system is set up at the moment I am a little bemused. The motor control relays on the Spindle V5 aren't connected so I assume the Sprint board turns the spindle on/off (or the Cable porter spindle is soley controlled with the 0-10v output). Either way am I correct that for the spidle powered by the VFD I don't need the Sprint? If this is the case my easiest (and foolproof) option is the simply add a new Spindle V5 and add a connector so only one can be used at a time. Can you suggest any PWM to Analogue boards to ue instead of the spindle V5?

My setup is wired similar to this except the stop/cc and stop/cc are not used
25650

Spndle V5 board for reference
25651

Thanks

[Doddy]

I wouldn’t have the Sprint in circuit for the new VFD - previous point of all pins floating at mains remains.

I’m not familiar with the Spindle board (and on mobile so not going to start googling) but looks to take step/dir signals to generate the 0-10v analogue output - why not simply use the or a similar replacement (as you suggest) - if it ain’t broke....

The other easy alternative is a parallel Bob with onboard 0-10v output but that would need a PWM Drive from the controlling pc for effective speed control.

I could suggest you’d be best taking the RUN relay output from the Spindle board (if used) into the FOR input on the new VFD

[Doddy]

Missed a bit... have the connectors between the Spindle board and the Sprint/VFD, no need for two Spindle boards

[ngwagwa]

So new spindle mounted and am able to run it manually from the VFD.
Have put a connector using the 0-10v speed control output from the spindle v5 board and the two wires that fed the run and com on the sprint board. When connected the old motor runs but the new one won't. The 0-10v tests ok but the two feeds that went to the sprint board appear to be always closed.
Any ideas anyone?

[Doddy]

The 0-10v tests ok but the two feeds that went to the sprint board appear to be always closed.

"to be always closed." - you'll have to explain that a bit more.

From what you're written I understand that you've got 0-10V from the Spindle board, and have "somehow" connected this via a connector system to the VFD (guessing through an analogue 10V input, referenced to Analogue ground - two wires). You would then also likely have to reconfigure the VFD to take an analogue input rather than, e.g. front panel control (assuming you're currently using the push buttons for speed control at the moment on the VFD). Of course, you'll also have to work out the forward/reverse discrete controls (although for now you can do this from the front panel).

I can't recall seeing which VFD you've got, if the generic "Huanyang" Chinese jobs then look at:-

PD001 - Run Command : set to 0 (front panel) or 1 (discrete input)
PD002 - Operating frequency (RPM) : set to 0 (front panel) or 1 (analogue input - what you want)
PD070 - Analogue input : set to 0 (0-10V)
PD044 - FOR : set to 2 (forward rotation)
PD045 - REV : set to 3 (reverse rotation)

Preston, eh?, that's handy - if you need a lift with the VFD settings.

[ngwagwa]

Sorry, always closed = zero resistance, I was expecting to get a reading of 1 with the spindle off in mach3 and 0 when turned on. I did at one point get the VFD to start the motor when power was turned off to my control box but that isn't much use! And yes a chinese huanyang VFD. I have it working fine on manuak with PD001 set at 0.
I live in Preston but my workshop is in Chorley.

[Doddy]

I was expecting to get a reading of 1 with the spindle off in mach3 and 0 when turned on.
I live in Preston but my workshop is in Chorley.

A reading of 1?, okay, gonna ignore that and keep with the "always closed" statement - so the Spindle V5 card isn't actuating the CW/CCW outputs?, that sounds more like an integration issue between the SpindleV5 and the controlling PC/Mach3.

Step forward a bit to where they are working, and you couple the N/O CW output and ground between the VFD FOR and DCM pins, then set PD001 to 1 and that's your motor on/off control, and the 0-10V I think you've got working onto the VI input and set the PD001 to 1. And Bobs your uncle.

Looking at the Spindle V5 manual - this takes a Step/Dir input from a BoB - which clearly is set up okay, but it also expects a digital output from the BoB to actuate the Run control - which I'm guessing is what the Spindle V5 uses to drive either CCW or CW output relays. For that - check that the RUN input on the Spindle V5 is connected to a discrete output on the BoB, and that is bound to an output number in Mach3, and that output is specified in the Spindle Control page on Mach3. Details in the user manual. The goal here must be to get the CW relay switching.

Chorley?, 8 miles down the road. Some decent micro bars. Not far to travel. Only down side was I met my wife from there

[ngwagwa]

That's right - the spindleV5 is controlling the speed but the on/off is controlled via the Sprint 400. Don't ask me why it was done that way.

Instead of getting the CW relay switch working would it not be easier to use the BOB spindle output?

micro bars as in ale houses?

EDIT: by the way putting the original spindle back on is looking less likely each day :)

[Doddy]

The only point with the Spindle providing On/Off is the CW/CCW control - if you think you'll use reverse.

You could use the BoB spindle output - it's just another discrete output, but you'll lose the reversing option (assuming the SpindleV5 does 0-10 and separately CW/CCW depending on the DIR input).

[ngwagwa]

Don't expect to want reverse and using the BOB spindle output seems easier than trying to activate the Spindle V5 CW/CCW relays.

[ngwagwa]

Now I am confused. Pins 16 & 17 (spindle on/dir) go from BOB to spindle 5 board but it's the sprint that starts the spindle and I can't see how the sprint gets a signal to start the motor.

[Doddy]

My guess?, and it is a guess... the Sprint is configured such that a non-zero demand on the analogue input starts the spindle-motor. That short-cuts the need for a FOR/REV control.

Doesn't work for the Chinese VFD. You still need to source the spindle relay outputs through the BoB (and optionally through the Spindle V5) to the VFD

[Doddy]

Now I am confused. Pins 16 & 17 (spindle on/dir)

That's spindle PWM (or Step)/DIR, isn't it? Rather than a discrete ON(/OFF)

[ngwagwa]

Yes

[Doddy]

25690

What's happening with Pin 5 of the Sprint controller?

[ngwagwa]

Com and run have just over 9 volts all the time

[Doddy]

Com and run have just over 9 volts all the time

With the pin-out as-shown in the manual there should be approx 5 volts between COM and RUN.

No shorting link between COM and RUN? With power off (and discharged for 20 minutes) what's the resistance between COM and RUN?

This is all a bit of a distraction to explain why the Sprint/Spindle Motor doesn't need a separate signal from the BoB - it's kind of irrelevant - as above you need to source a motor-run from the BoB/SpindleV5

[ngwagwa]

Have now found out there is a jumper removed from the BOB which disables the onboard relay and enables the port used for the Spindle 5.